New to canoes...

[Alan Cohen]

Hi Guys and Gals. I've been a trailer sailer on my local lake for a few years now and recently have developed a hankerin' to do some paddling. I love the look of old wooden canoes and am in the market to buy one. I'm not looking to collect them, and although I am quite capable of working on them, I'd rather spend my limited leisure time at this point on the water rather than in my shop restoring an old boat. Of course that could change downstream a ways.

I'm considering the boat pictured below. It's 14'8" and" reasonably light" at <60# which is a good thing because I will be cartopping and mostly soloing, although I'm sure my teen boys will come along on occasional fishing expeditions. It was commissioned and built in ME in the late 60's early 70's by an individual builder I believe, but can't be certain. The owner got it handed down from his in-laws who are long passed and does not have any documentation. I've been browsing this site and notice most people live for the history of their boats. That will be difficult for this boat.

That said, it really only matters to me for resale purposes, not my enjoyment of the boat while I own it. I'm paying well under $1000 for it and it has only been in the water a dozen times and stored in a heated garage its entire life.

I've learned just enough about canoes to get into trouble, but I had a question on this one. It will be mostly used on a lake and rowed point to point with an occasional trip down a lazy river. It appears to have substantial rocker, but it also has a keel. I'd be paddling solo the majority of the time and would prefer a boat that I do not have to wrestle to keep on line, especially in a stiff breeze when a storms rolling in and I just want to get to shore.

 

[MGC]

Hi Alan,

Any time I can buy a boat that is in good enough shape to paddle for less than $1,000 I am hard pressed to pass it up.
Yours has the look of one of the Canadian makers, not a local Maine build..it's hard for me to from the pictures.
Others will jump in and tell you not only that but also where the trees were cut and the kerf of the saws used to mill them.

What I can say is that this canoe should fit your needs perfectly. The rocker is not all that bad...the keel really will help you to track.
The ends are not too high so it should be "OK" in the wind as long as you sit in the bow and put a bit of weight in it.
The length and weight are good for a solo canoe.
Most here (myself included) freak out over fiberglass on a wooden canoe but in reality for what you want this for, it's probably perfect.
It looks like it's in good shape. Look it over real carefully for rot.

If you take it home for less than $850 it should be money well spent. You could probably pay a bit more and still feel good about it.
Buy it and enjoy it.
Welcome to WCHA.

 

[Alan Cohen]

Thanks and thanks again, MGC. I completey understand about the canvas vs, glass thing. I fly rubber-powered stick and tissue model airplanes and cringe when I hear those R/C jobs buzzing around. I just don't understand why someone would want to hold a remote in their hand and watch their plane go round and round and up and down. I'm a little old-fashioned that way. Along with balsa wood airplanes, I also build acoustic guitars. I would never consider using CA glue, although some do because it cures faster, because once the glue gets into the wood grain, there is no getting it out. Quality repairs are almost impossible. I'm sure traditional w/c people feel the same about boats. Once you glass it there is no going back.

Here's a poor quality youtube vid of me flying a 1950's design rubber power model. That's son #1 at the camera. On that flight it got to about 800' and was in the air for over 4 minutes. Chasing 'em down is half the fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPDTf-vy5SU

I'm glad you confirmed my thinking on this one. I've really been doing a lot of research of my options given my parameters:

Wood construction
Light enough to cartop
Manageable enough to solo
Not a project initially and reasonbly carefree for the long term.

I shattered my 40-year old rudder on my 18' daysailer two years ago and built another one from western red cedar. It looked so cool in natural wood that I glassed and epoxied it. It's been used and abused for the past 2 years and still looks great with hardly a nick. If this boat reacts anything like that, I'll be a happy camper. Don't get me wrong, I try to be careful with my stuff, but I don't want to walk on eggshells. If I bought a vintage w/c boat and spent a summer restoring it I'd be a mess after every rock I rubbed against.

 

[MGC]

Nice movie. Very cool.

A glassed canoe is not necessarily "tougher". It may be a bit more maintenance free...but not all that much.
I use my canvas canoes for camping trips. I run rapids in them. We do not baby them (much).
That said, the plastic canoe is sitting out behind the shed in the snow...all of the other canoes are under cover.

The beauty of canvas is that it so easily repaired...and canvas is tough. You almost need to work at cutting it.
A rock garden mishap that would crack ribs in a canvassed canoe will probably crack the same ribs on one that is glassed (done it).

So, if being maintenance free is the criteria, don't pass over a canvassed boat for one that is glassed.

 

[Alan Cohen]

Ahhhh, now I get it. Having never seen a wood and canvas canoe I was thinking "thin cloth" as opposed to heavy canvas. I have some 10# cotton duck that I use occasionally and that stuff is like leather. I can see how that would protect the bottom of a canoe quite well. Pardon my naiveté.

 

[Steve Ambrose]

Canvas is the skin, filler is the armor, and the enamel paint is the grease. The combined effect is far more durable than the unitiated give it credit for. Resin/glass makes a durable skin but must also be protected from UV (paint or varnish). Another key factor to keep in mind with a glassed boat is to minimize the amount of water inside the boat. Allowing it to absorb moisture will result in buckled planking over time since the wood is locked by the external shell but it will still attempt to swell or shrink with changes in moisture level. A stripper is glassed inside and out effectively locking the wood core and eliminating the moisture issue as long as the integrity of the glass skin remains intact.

 

[Alan Cohen]

So I went to see the boat today. It was a 3.5 hour drive from Joisey to eastern CT so I was pretty sure I was coming back with it.

I guess it is what it's supposed to be. I was surprised to see filler in between the planks at several places. The sunlight shining through made it look like gaps, but the glass was intact. No rot whatsoever, just a few wasps nests from sitting in the garage. It's not what I would consider a woodworking masterpiece, but it appears sound. I actually considered passing it up until I lifted it. It is surprisingly light. I offered $650 and we settled on $750. I guess I'm now the proud owner of a wooden canoe. I already put a coat of spar varnish on the outer shell and gunwales. When it dries I'll do the inside.

I couldn't resist weighing it when I got home and my suspicion was correct. It weighs 45# even. Perfect for cartopping for me. I can't wait to get it wet.

Oh yeah, it came with the original paddles, oak I believe. They're nice, but they were dry as a bone without a bit of finish on the blades. I suppose I should put some spar varnish on them as well. I'll post some pics when everything is dry.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Welcome to the wonderful world of wooden canoeing, Alan! This has been a great thread to read, especially at this time of year when we're all hankering to get out on the water!

Kathy

 

[Alan Cohen]

Thanks Kathy.

As far as this time of year...it hit 70º in central NJ yesterday and I couldn't resist join' for a paddle. The good news is she floats! I sat in the bow seat and put a bag w/ about 3 gallons of water up front for balance. It seemed to work OK but I think this boat would be happier with at least two people. It felt a little tippier that I remember my last canoe trip. It almost felt like it was sitting on top of the water rather than in it, if that makes any sense. There was about a 5-6 knot breeze and I got to feel her going and coming. She points well. I practiced my newly learned "J-stoke" and was able to keep a fairly straight line. I paddled for three hours around the perimeter of the lake. In my sailboat I get to see the middle, but can't get close to the shores. It was fun inspecting the shorelines close up.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Very nice -- and poking around in the shallow water near the shore is one of the delights of canoeing. Of course, you have lots of flat-water river running near you in the Pine Barrens, and your new canoe looks just right for that as well. As to your paddle, my guess from the photo would be ash -- more paddles made of ash than of oak -- lighter and more flexible.

I keep a couple of good-sized pieces of slate near the garage with my canoes, and throw them in when I load up the car and set off for a solo paddle -- they keep the bow down nicely.

You should have many hours of great paddling in that canoe.

 

[pklonowski]

Another way to weigh down the other end of the canoe is to carry a mid-sized vinyl dry bag. When you get to the water, fill it as much as you like, seal the top end of the bag, and put it in the "light" end of the boat. When you're done paddling, take it out of the canoe, dump the water out, and throw the empty bag in the car... it's a little easier than carrying rocks around!