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The First Argument: Love vs. Worship

Should canoes be loved or should they be worshiped? What would definitions of these be?

I'll start the argument by saying I think Canoes should be loved. They have histories occasionally older than ourselves and therefore stories to tell. Part of what we love about a canoe is how it feels to use it. How it acts on the water, how it is handled, how it handles us. By using a restored canoe not only do we admire, appreciate, court date and marry them (well ok, own them), we go through stages of their lives much like the people in our lives. What we experience with the canoe endears us to them. The sound of the waves on the canvas, the feel of the cedar beneath bare feet.

If we never use the restored canoe, do we have the same experience of endearment. If we hide them in special cases and keep them from view to preserve them but they never become a part of a canoe museum do we rob them of their lives? Do we rob ourselves from the chance to love that canoe in all ways? If we put it on this shelf does it become worshiped, not loved?

I have 4 canoes, One cannot be loved because I cannot use the thing (in pieces) so I have no real experience to share with it. But the other three, I absolutely love. Man, we've had some good times. It would seem cruel to make them so perfect that I never used them.

OK, Argue away.
I say without qualification that I love mah canoe.

I don't think that they should be worshipped, as they are, at the end of the day, to be used, and to stand the risk of abuse.

In a perverse way however, when you are longboard sanding, is it a kind of worship. Or is it self-flaggellation?
Some folks may also feel a bit jealous of an old canoe that can become good-as-new again, and start life over--- new adventures, new people...
I know my wife gets a bit jealous at the time I spend on canoes, in canoes and talking about canoes. No arguments yet but I am sure that one day, maybe not tomorrow or next month or next year but one day, this will all come up during an argument.
Is that what you mean?

More like

The difference between Loving and worshiping canoes. What are the definitions of this as far as restored canoes goes. Do you love or do you worship your canoes.
Why must one love or worship ones canoe? Is it not good enough to admire it for its beauty, craftsmanship and utility? The terms love and worship connote pretty strong feelings which when applied to an inanimate object almost (as I see it) border on fanaticism. I do love working on canoes as do I love being able to paddle one. I am aw struck by their beauty and the workmanship of their makers. But for me love is reserved for my kids, my partner, my animals and other living entities. Worship is for that other unknown entity.
Just my two cents :)
another feeling-hatred

Sometimes I hate them. Like when the gunnel is only an inch from the final bend and so I put a little more force on it and then it breaks. Same thing for ribs. Or when the moth lands on the wet paint. Or when, after 70 hours I'm putting the stem band on and the screw driver slips and---
I like to leave my barn door open for those times so that I can throw the offending part out onto the driveway as far as possible. I love that part.

Oh, and Margaret, there's a commandment about the worship part. Starts with "Thou Shalt Not".
Howard Caplan said:
I know my wife gets a bit jealous at the time I spend on canoes, in canoes and talking about canoes. No arguments yet but I am sure that one day, maybe not tomorrow or next month or next year but one day, this will all come up during an argument.
Is that what you mean?


Howard makes a a good point. For every rare, happy paddling couple, there are dozens of others in which one partner is forever rolling their eyes heavenward at the mere mention of another dusty boat being dragged up the driveway and into the garage - predominantly under the false pretense of a "quick restoration".

So while we can certainly inaugurate a new Arguments section on this site - and given that it may even help those in the hobby to better prepare their case - let it be known that the arguments taking place here between ardent paddlers will forever pale in comparison to the real thing.

No... those authentic arguments - between the paddler and non-paddler will take place tonight, and every night; in exasperated, hushed tones between long-suffering wives and their husbands; between girlfriends who'd hoped the "birthday surprise" from their boyfriend was a trip to Paris rather than a project with three broken ribs and a small hole in the planking; and occasionally between a perplexed husband who's watching his wife shifting interests from chiffon to canvas, and from sterling silverware to western red cedar.

These passionate discussions will take place at dinner tables all over America and many parts of Canada, and they'll last for as long as there are relationships... and old wooden boats to be the subject of plans, dreams, schemes and an occasional, harmless argument.
New Argument: Latin vs. Algebra

Is Latin the language of Science or is Algebra? OR
Is Algebra the Language of Math? OR
Something else?

All my biology/horticulture/arborculture/agronomy instructors insisted Latin is the Language of Science.

I am not a Math person.
Math is the Central Science, the root of all science. Consider this:

Biology, the various studies of living organisms, is described by chemical processes, such as photosynthesis, DNA replication, et al.

Chemistry is described by physical processes, including chemical and nuclear reactions.

Physics is described by mathematical means... ask any physicist, and they'll agree that it all boils down to math!

This was explained to me by someone who earned a master's degree in math, and was heartily agreed to by someone with a master's degree in math education, so the perspective may be just a little bit biased. :)

But, in my daily slavework as a cross between a scientist and an engineer, I find that math does, in fact, govern everything. It doesn't matter if I'm working out a biochemical process, designing/building new hardware, writing software, or doing some statistical analysis... math sneaks in there somewhere along the line.

I used to hate math, but it has grown on me... at an exponential rate! OOOHHH that was bad. :eek:
Sure, but.....

You don't say whether you think Latin is the Language of Science or if Algebra is the Language of Science OR if Algebra is the Language of Math. We must have some more math people, biology, etc people as member of WCHA that would like to put their opinion on this. This is the place to do it.
On the other hand............

If a Woodchuck could chuck wood, how much wood would a Woodchuck chuck? Oops, I guess that's math.----------- Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
Hey, hand me that piece of Entandrophragma cylindricum, sorry, I'd rather have that piece of Shorea spp. What did you give me?! I really wanted the piece of Swietenia macrophylla sitting over there.
Ya, good idea. How about just giving me the damn stick of mahogany that's laying over there.

No, I don't want to use the Latin names. I have enough trouble speaking English.