Need some measurements please!

[Howie]

I can't believe I've never wrote down measurements before! I've got a bunch of thwarts I've accumulated over the years, and I've got a pair of new seats I made last year. But none of thwarts nor the seats seem to fit in the 1942 16' Yankee nor the 1938 16' Otca I've been working on! If I had kept better notes...

So, can someone supply me with measurements of seats & thwarts please for an Otca and/or Yankee? While you're at it give me the canoe's year and length.

For the thwarts please give me the length from bolt to bolt and overall length if it's easy to do (please don't disassemble your canoe!). And can you verify whether the thwarts are left/right centered on the canoe, and the distance between them on the canoe.

Similar for the seats. But just the hole-to-hole spacing on each cross bar as well as the front-to-back spacing between the holes.

The more measurements the better - specs may change from year to year & model to model.

Thanks. I'm starting an Excel file to hold the info. About time.

 

[Benson Gray]

I don't have a Yankee or an old style 16 foot Otca handy but the overall dimensions at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/dimens-1.gif from 1920 should get you the middle thwart length. The diagram at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/specific.gif may help you with the quarter thwarts. You can probably judge the 'fair curve' to each end once the middle thwart is in place. Hopefully someone will be along with more exact dimensions.

Benson

 

[Miquel]

ive got a 51 Yankee 16' ill get those measurements for you today.

 

[Ron Bedard]

Hi,
I'm working on canoe #112981. A 16' open gunnel model from 1933. The seats and thwarts are off. Would measurements of these help you?
Ron

 

[Howie]

Yes please - all measurements are welcome, and from any canoe. As I said, I've started an Excel document and will put all info I get into it. Like...
Front & rear seats: left/right width plus span width, measured bolt-to-bolt (3 measurements for each seat)
Thwart length, measured bolt-to-bolt, plus # of thwarts, and distance between thwarts, and whether thwarts are centered. Overall thwart size too if you're game.

And please tell me the canoe's Mfgr, model, and year if you can - I'm sure that seats & perhaps thwarts change locations over the years.

 

[Miquel]

for my 51 yankee 16
the thwarts: lengths are the longest point of the compound and cuts, holes are center to center-
Bow 30 1/2" overall holes- 28 5/8"
Mid 33 3/8" overall, holes-32 1/4"(this thwart has a new end and hole so could be off as much as 1/8" but the swale of the gunwhales in an even curve
Stern 30 1/2" overall, holes 28 5/8"
Seats: unexpectedly not the same width, so the holes are not the same distance apart, i just measured the holes(center to center), not the overall length of the seats.
Bow 24 3/8" and 27 1/8" at 8 1/8" apart
Stern 16 15/16" and 12 1/2" at 8 3/4" apart

let me know if you need clarity on any of that.

 

[pklonowski]

For my 1918/19 OT HW, 17', all dimensions between holes, except as noted:
Center thwart 31&1/8
Bow & Stern thwarts identical, at 27 & 9/16
bow seat front rail 23&11/16
Bow seat back rail 26 spot on
Bow seat between rails 6&5/8 (Inside dim)
Bow seat between stiles (the short pieces) approx Inside dim 11&1/4" (not yet re-assembled)
Stern seat front rail 16&9/16
Stern seat back rail 13&3/8
Stern seat between rails (Inside dim) 7&7/16
Stern seat between stiles (the short pieces) approx Inside dim 9" (not yet re-assembled)

Locations from stems TBD... It's dark out there.

 

[Howie]

Miguel & Paul K - Thank you both!

Miguel: Yeah, I've found the front & rear seats on Old Towns to always be slightly different widths. Could never figure out why...

Paul K: Not sure what your seat 'depth' measurements are. Can you give me bolt-to-bolt distance; that is, the distance from the leading edges of the two parts that span from rail to rail. And the distance between the thwarts. Please!

 

[pklonowski]

Can't get distance between thwarts before tomorrow sometime, most likely later in the day. "Depth," I measured as width between seat rails (inside dimension), essentially the length of the short pieces between the rails. I can put things together to do the measurement between center lines of the rails, probably later tomorrow... This canoe is a lllooonnnggg way from being assembled... just trying to get whatever info to you I can muster!

Slightly different seat widths could be due to who was running the radial arm saw that day... Did they measure to the nearest 1/16, 1/8, or 1/4, of an inch? I was told long ago that carpenters measure to the nearest 1/4 inch, cabinetmakers measure to the nearest 1/16 of an inch, and boatbuilders measure to the nearest boat...

Am I helping to feed your mania? I'm good with that...

 

[Howie]

Mania? Yeah, I suppose it is. I just checked - I've owned & restored 35 w/c canoes over the years. And I've had to make seats for most of them and thwarts for many. You'd have thought I'd have written down some of the details...

As to the seat widths, every single Old Town had front & back seats at different widths. There's no doubt they did it on purpose. For looks? Maybe they figure the guy takes rear seat so they made it with more butt space!

 

[Rob Stevens]

Am I missing something? Do you expect components to be standaradized/interchangable, that the sizes and measurements will be consistent? I would think you'd be more realistic to view each canoe as somewhat custom. There is some leeway & flexibility in every hull. At final assembly, the measurements that work, are what is installed. For example, all thwarts are made longer than they need to be, then cut to fit when installed, both for length and angle to the hull. Similarly with seats.

 

[pklonowski]

Well, your avatar says "Wooden Canoe Maniac" so I wasn't about to argue! lol

Stern seat, front to back, on centers: 8&7/8
Bow seat, front to back, on centers: 8&1/16

I'll need another pair of hands to get the distances from stems to seats & thwarts. Hopefully later today.

 

[Howie]

Rob: Guess I should have explained. I was given a Yankee last year that had neither thwarts nor seats. Surprisingly the canoe wasn't too splayed out, but I needed seats and thwarts measurements to get it back into shape. Hence the request. Hence my starting an excel file to hold info for future canoes.

 

[pklonowski]

Rob, I think the goal is to get sets of measurements, all in one place, so when questions come up, Howie can readily reference them.