Kennebec information wanted
- Thread starter Wardus
- Start date
Dave Osborn
LIFE MEMBER
Looks like a good buy. I kinda have a $400 rule on the rare occasion that I buy one.
Any more than that, unless it is something extraordinary is not really a good deal.
Any more than that, unless it is something extraordinary is not really a good deal.
Welcome and congratulations, the Kennebec canoe with serial number 19468 is a 17 foot long Kennebec model type A as shown on page 134 of volume three in the Kennebec ledgers. It was planked by Cameron on August 13th, 1927. The canvas covering was applied by Roy on August 20th, 1927. He added the first filler coat on August 28th, 1927 and the second one on September 17th, 1927. The rails were installed by Mansell on October 8th, 1927. The original color was green. It shipped to location "28-301" on June 4th, 1928. This location is probably an order number but we don't currently have enough information to identify it. The scans of these build records can be found below. These original Kennebec records are reproduced through the courtesy of the Maine State Museum.
The microfilms and scans of these records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA). A description of the project to preserve other records like these is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See https://www.woodencanoe.org/about to learn more about the WCHA and https://www.woodencanoe.org/shop to donate or join.
It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. I agree with Dave that $400 sounds like a very good price. The link below has some more opinions about how to value canoes like this. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.
Benson
forums.wcha.org
The microfilms and scans of these records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA). A description of the project to preserve other records like these is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See https://www.woodencanoe.org/about to learn more about the WCHA and https://www.woodencanoe.org/shop to donate or join.
It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. I agree with Dave that $400 sounds like a very good price. The link below has some more opinions about how to value canoes like this. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.
Benson
How much is my old wooden canoe worth?
How much is my old canoe worth? One of the most common questions that gets sent to the WCHA webmasters is "how much is my old canoe worth?" Tim Hewitt's responses over the years have included the following comments: Any wooden or wood/canvas canoe in usable condition is worth $1000 - $1500. A...
That is fantastic information. You made my day. Length matches as does the original green paint.
Best I can tell without having dismantled anything it has a bit of dry rot on the outwales at the bow and stern deck, a cracked rib under the stern seat and one mid boat with a few rotten tips in the open gunwale. Planking seems to be in good shape (maybe). So is the keel but it will probably fall apart when removed to replace the canvas.
Are their companies that are better than others when acquiring parts to restore a kennebec? What wood species were used for the different parts of the boat?
Thank you, I really appreciate the feedback and information. I look forward to the process and would be happy to donate to WCHA.
Best I can tell without having dismantled anything it has a bit of dry rot on the outwales at the bow and stern deck, a cracked rib under the stern seat and one mid boat with a few rotten tips in the open gunwale. Planking seems to be in good shape (maybe). So is the keel but it will probably fall apart when removed to replace the canvas.
Are their companies that are better than others when acquiring parts to restore a kennebec? What wood species were used for the different parts of the boat?
Thank you, I really appreciate the feedback and information. I look forward to the process and would be happy to donate to WCHA.
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Hi Wardus,
Your Kennebec seems in generally good condition for its age, at least relative to many others you might have found. It is a good candidate for restoration. There aren't stockpiles of wooden parts anywhere for Kennebecs, or for any other early canoe for that matter (you can still get many fasteners and such, though). Restoration generally involves fabrication of new wooden parts. If you have or are willing to learn some woodworking skills, this can be done. Alternatively, for help you can reach out to people listed here:
www.woodencanoe.org
Given that you are in Pennsylvania, you've got a good selection of knowledgeable people in your area.
As for hardware, canvas, filler and other things, some favorite suppliers in the US include:
www.woodencanoe.org
www.woodencanoe.org
These forums provide a wealth of information if you wish to tackle some or all of the work yourself, and there are some books that cover restoration. The first one below (The Wood & Canvas Canoe) is often called "the Bible of canoe building and restoration." Both books provide interesting and valuable information:
www.woodencanoe.org
www.woodencanoe.org
I hope this helps, and hope that you'll keep us informed through these forums as you progress.
Michael
Your Kennebec seems in generally good condition for its age, at least relative to many others you might have found. It is a good candidate for restoration. There aren't stockpiles of wooden parts anywhere for Kennebecs, or for any other early canoe for that matter (you can still get many fasteners and such, though). Restoration generally involves fabrication of new wooden parts. If you have or are willing to learn some woodworking skills, this can be done. Alternatively, for help you can reach out to people listed here:
BuildersSuppliers
Whether you're looking to have a canoe restored, or to find the products or information to restore it yourself, you'll find what you need in our Builders and Suppliers listing.
www.woodencanoe.org
Given that you are in Pennsylvania, you've got a good selection of knowledgeable people in your area.
As for hardware, canvas, filler and other things, some favorite suppliers in the US include:
Island Falls Canoe Company
Building E. M. White originals and adaptations since 1975 and Old Town canoes since 2009. Individual and class instruction. Author of “Building the Maine Guide Canoe,” co-author with Rollin Thurlow, “The Wood-Canvas Canoe.” Builder of 4’ and 8’ Old Town Salesman’s Samples. Builds: 6’ E. M. White...
www.woodencanoe.org
Northwoods Canoe
Designer and builder of the original 17’ Atkinson Traveler. Building twelve other models including historic B.N. Morris and J.H. Ruston reproductions and two style of square stern boats. Custom building, design and restoration of all types of wooden canoes/boats. Selling and mail order of...
www.woodencanoe.org
These forums provide a wealth of information if you wish to tackle some or all of the work yourself, and there are some books that cover restoration. The first one below (The Wood & Canvas Canoe) is often called "the Bible of canoe building and restoration." Both books provide interesting and valuable information:
The Wood & Canvas Canoe: A Complete Guide | WoodenCanoeHeritage
Author: Jerry StelmokRollin ThurlowFrom the final decade of the 19th century until the mid 1950’s, the predominant small water craft for recreationists, summer camps, and wilderness travelers was the iconic canvas covered wooden canoe built by Old Town, B.N. Morris, E.M. White, Chestnut, J.H...
www.woodencanoe.org
This Old Canoe: How to Restore Your Wood Canvas Canoe | WoodenCanoeHeritage
Author: Mike ElliottWhen restoring a wood-canvas canoe, you don't work on it, you work with it. In This Old Canoe: How To Restore Your Wood-Canvas Canoe, Mike Elliott guides you through the process of bringing your classic heirloom back to life. He takes you step-by-step through all aspects of a...
www.woodencanoe.org
I hope this helps, and hope that you'll keep us informed through these forums as you progress.
Michael
Last edited:
MGC
Scrapmaker
WRT the woods... these will slightly vary from builder and model to model depending up the chosen or available trim.
Ribs are almost always white cedar.
Planking is almost always quarter sawn white cedar. On Old Town canoes, it will be Western red cedar.
Stems (the curved end bit) vary. Many are ash or white oak. Rushton used elm. Morris used cedar. Rhinelander used maple (?).
Inside and outside rails (gunwales) are most often spruce, but a deluxe canoe will often be trimmed with cherry or mahogany. Rushton used white oak on many of his models. Many Canadian canoes have oak rails. You will also see white ash used, generally on the outside.
Thwarts will usually be made from the same woods used on the decks. Decks and thwarts can be an accent piece so on a nicer model, these may be cherry, maple, chestnut, mahogany, walnut, birch and any other available colorful and nicely figured material that the builders could source.
Your canoe looks like it is white cedar planked. The rails caps and probably the rails appear to be spruce. That deck is hard to figure out and there isn't a good image of the thwarts to look at so I'm not sure about those. You might hit them with some sand paper to get a read on it. The stem looks a bit hammered so plan to repair/splice that. Ash or oak should do the trick.
I'd be very worried about those worm holes. They do not look fresh but look closely to see if they appear in other locations on the hull. You should treat the wood to make sure they are dead.
Ribs are almost always white cedar.
Planking is almost always quarter sawn white cedar. On Old Town canoes, it will be Western red cedar.
Stems (the curved end bit) vary. Many are ash or white oak. Rushton used elm. Morris used cedar. Rhinelander used maple (?).
Inside and outside rails (gunwales) are most often spruce, but a deluxe canoe will often be trimmed with cherry or mahogany. Rushton used white oak on many of his models. Many Canadian canoes have oak rails. You will also see white ash used, generally on the outside.
Thwarts will usually be made from the same woods used on the decks. Decks and thwarts can be an accent piece so on a nicer model, these may be cherry, maple, chestnut, mahogany, walnut, birch and any other available colorful and nicely figured material that the builders could source.
Your canoe looks like it is white cedar planked. The rails caps and probably the rails appear to be spruce. That deck is hard to figure out and there isn't a good image of the thwarts to look at so I'm not sure about those. You might hit them with some sand paper to get a read on it. The stem looks a bit hammered so plan to repair/splice that. Ash or oak should do the trick.
I'd be very worried about those worm holes. They do not look fresh but look closely to see if they appear in other locations on the hull. You should treat the wood to make sure they are dead.
The pages below from the 1910 Kennebec catalog identify many of the wood species they were using at that time. Their 1920s catalogs were less specific and may have changed.
Benson
Thank you all. I'm so pleased to have come across this community and organization. I have a background in wood working, and although I have only worked on more modern old towns and some royalex boats, I plan and hope to do the restoration work myself. Many more questions to come. Thanks again
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Looking good, Carlton!
And Wardus if you haven't already done so, please consider joining the WCHA. We are a registered nonprofit membership organization, and memberships provide most of the resources required to keep this organization doing all the good things it does, like keeping this website going and the discussion forums alive. Joining is easy - click the "Join/Renew" button at the top right of the home page, or go here:
www.woodencanoe.org
And Wardus if you haven't already done so, please consider joining the WCHA. We are a registered nonprofit membership organization, and memberships provide most of the resources required to keep this organization doing all the good things it does, like keeping this website going and the discussion forums alive. Joining is easy - click the "Join/Renew" button at the top right of the home page, or go here:
Purchase Classified Ad | WoodenCanoeHeritage
Join the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association as a yearly, family, builder or lifetime member.
www.woodencanoe.org
patrick corry
solo canoeist
Hello Wardus, where are you located in PA? By no means am I an expert, but I have restored several canoes, and I am currently in the process of restoring a significantly damaged Chestnut of similar vintage. Feel free to direct message me to discuss a possible meet up if geography aligns...
