My husband and I just bought an old wood and canvas canoe. It seems to have a few of the identifiers of a Morris. It is 16ft, has been fiberglassed over, the previous owner bought it used about 1950. It has splayed stems, 3 set of cant ribs, pocketed closed gunnel and tapered ribs. The decks are 32" long. View attachment Hedy for ID - Morris question.pdfPhotos attached,we think!!!!
Is this a Morris????
- Thread starter Gasping
- Start date
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Certainly looks like a Morris-- congratulations. Decks and seats have been replaced but the thwart appears original. If you want to post more pictures, click "go advanced" in the lower right and scroll down to "manage attachments"-- clicking on that will give you a browse box that allows you to upload images. Select pictures and click "upload".
Any sign of a serial number plate, either on the stem or inwale?
Any sign of a serial number plate, either on the stem or inwale?
We haven't found a serial number, but who knows what's under all that fiberglass. We need to replace 5 ribs, inner and outer gunnel and seats and thwarts. Any idea what kind of wood we should use? Any resources besides Rollin's book? (Just ordered it on Ebay, why in the WORLD would such a book be out of print?) Any tricks for removing the fiberglass that aren't covered in Rollin's book? Any thoughts about the 32" decks? That is the part that seemed odd to us.
We're JAZZED!!!!
We're JAZZED!!!!
Greg Nolan
enthusiast
You might consider ordering the “The Historic Wood Canoe and Boat Company Catalog Collection” on CD, from the WCHA online bookstore -- http://store.wcha.org/The-Historic-...pany-Catalog-Collection-Version-2-CD-ROM.html
It contains copies of many of the Morris catalogues (as well as catalogues of many other companies), which give dimensions, location of thwarts, and details of the various Morris models (such as gunwale profiles), and show pictures of things like the various decks.
I don’t know that plans or patterns for seats are available. Here are some pictures (click on thumbnails to enlarge) of the seats from my 18’ Morris as bought, with plastic cane, with some measurements. (I have removed the plastic cane, repaired cracks between holes, refinished and recaned). The ends of the lateral rails are angled to match the line of the gunwales. The fore-aft measurement of both the bow and stern seats is the same. As you can see, the outside edges of the top of the seat frame are rounded except at the ends and in the corners; on the bottom of the frame, the edges are all somewhat eased, but not rounded in the same way. As memory serves, the frame rails are 3/4 inch thick x 1 3/4 inch wide.
stern seat
bow seat
repaired, refinished, recaned.
I believe the basic dimensions of the caned area would be the same for a 16’ Morris, with perhaps some minor difference in the overall width. The beam of the canoe may well be a bit different from when it was built – shapes and dimensions often change over the decades, depending on how the canoe was stored and used.
Morris seats and thwarts and decks were mahogany. Long-decked Morrises had mahogany outwales and spruce inwales stained to match; small-decked Morrises had spruce gunwales. Other wood parts are cedar, including the stems (which is usually a hard wood in other makers’ canoes).
It contains copies of many of the Morris catalogues (as well as catalogues of many other companies), which give dimensions, location of thwarts, and details of the various Morris models (such as gunwale profiles), and show pictures of things like the various decks.
I don’t know that plans or patterns for seats are available. Here are some pictures (click on thumbnails to enlarge) of the seats from my 18’ Morris as bought, with plastic cane, with some measurements. (I have removed the plastic cane, repaired cracks between holes, refinished and recaned). The ends of the lateral rails are angled to match the line of the gunwales. The fore-aft measurement of both the bow and stern seats is the same. As you can see, the outside edges of the top of the seat frame are rounded except at the ends and in the corners; on the bottom of the frame, the edges are all somewhat eased, but not rounded in the same way. As memory serves, the frame rails are 3/4 inch thick x 1 3/4 inch wide.
stern seat
bow seat
repaired, refinished, recaned.
I believe the basic dimensions of the caned area would be the same for a 16’ Morris, with perhaps some minor difference in the overall width. The beam of the canoe may well be a bit different from when it was built – shapes and dimensions often change over the decades, depending on how the canoe was stored and used.
Morris seats and thwarts and decks were mahogany. Long-decked Morrises had mahogany outwales and spruce inwales stained to match; small-decked Morrises had spruce gunwales. Other wood parts are cedar, including the stems (which is usually a hard wood in other makers’ canoes).
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Your decks don't look like Morris decks. Your canoe may have had the short heart-shaped deck or short curved deck, or it could have had long decks which were made of two pieces of mahogany with a tapered central cover-strip (sometimes called a king plank). Morris long-decks could be anywhere from 24" on up, and had a frame underneath. I'll find some pictures.
I haven't heard that Rollin and Jerry's book will be reprinted... it is still "the bible" but please check here (in forums) for tips and clues. Actually, your best bet is to find a local chapter, and you'll get some in-person 1:1 advice and assistance.
A heat gun works for removing fiberglass. Soaking in a pond works too. It depends on the type of 'glass and the expertise of the 'glasser.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXILZU6Jm-s[/url]
The canoe in the fiberglass-removal video is a Morris. Here are three Morris-ID videos, if you haven't run into them already. They show where to find the serial number plate and may scare you in regard to replacing the inwales. But it is done... just trickier when a canoe has pocketed ribs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAz-rspieqE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN462MWTABc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlKzvDstSnQ
I haven't heard that Rollin and Jerry's book will be reprinted... it is still "the bible" but please check here (in forums) for tips and clues. Actually, your best bet is to find a local chapter, and you'll get some in-person 1:1 advice and assistance.
A heat gun works for removing fiberglass. Soaking in a pond works too. It depends on the type of 'glass and the expertise of the 'glasser.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXILZU6Jm-s[/url]
The canoe in the fiberglass-removal video is a Morris. Here are three Morris-ID videos, if you haven't run into them already. They show where to find the serial number plate and may scare you in regard to replacing the inwales. But it is done... just trickier when a canoe has pocketed ribs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAz-rspieqE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN462MWTABc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlKzvDstSnQ
Attachments
Regarding the decks, if you look at the 4th picture that is on the original post, it is a picture of the deck from underneath. It seems to be 2 pieces of wood with a seam down the middle and a small strip of wood under the seam. Fred says it has a slight crown to it.
Thanks for your time and consideration!
Thanks for your time and consideration!
Greg Nolan
enthusiast
Here are pages 14 and 23 from the 1919 Morris catalogue showing long decks:
It seems possible that the decks on your canoe are what remains of original decks, after someone messed around with them at some time in the past, but if so, they pretty clearly need some work to be put back in original condition.
It seems possible that the decks on your canoe are what remains of original decks, after someone messed around with them at some time in the past, but if so, they pretty clearly need some work to be put back in original condition.
We're wondering how to keep the canoe together while we replace the inwale. We want to see what's under the glass, especially on the decks, but are afraid the glass is keeping it from spreading as the inwales are broken in several places, all of the thwarts are out/broken and there is only one seat that is not original. Any suggestions for supporting the tops of the ribs while we pull out the inwale would be appreciated as there NO outwale. Apparently removed when glassed.
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
First, in regard to the decks look at the pictures Greg posted and the one I did as well. The configuration of your decks is entirely different from what's seen on an original Morris, but as Greg says, may be the result of much mucking-about and there is salvageable wood there. The central king plank that covers the seam between the two deck parts is on top, not underneath, the deck. A Morris king-plank is beautifully-made-- tapering, often with an area accommodating the pennant holder. And the wood of the deck may be book-matched. The framework holding the deck is also "crafted" and not simply a block of wood. But you can get the canoe back to what it was.
I'll have to let someone who has replaced inwales jump in here, but I see you're in Michigan and there is a VERY active lower MI chapter with really great folks... I'm guessing someone might help you in-person.
I do know that people put in temporary thwarts (just a piece of wood the right size) to hold a canoe together while restoring the hull. Bear in mind that in removing the 'glass you are doing this canoe a favor, and it will pay you back with years of enjoyment.
I'll have to let someone who has replaced inwales jump in here, but I see you're in Michigan and there is a VERY active lower MI chapter with really great folks... I'm guessing someone might help you in-person.
I do know that people put in temporary thwarts (just a piece of wood the right size) to hold a canoe together while restoring the hull. Bear in mind that in removing the 'glass you are doing this canoe a favor, and it will pay you back with years of enjoyment.
Hello "Gasping",
Nice find you have in the Morris. These canoes have been around so long that previous owners have made so many "modifications" and we can only speculate why. Kathryn pointed out you are from MI (Hasslett) a short paddle down river from us folks in Frankenmuth. We would like to have you among our chapter as we have a few BN Morris boats among us. Please get back with me and I will send to your email our newsletter and calendar of events.
Keep those paddles wet, plenty of canoe time remains!
Nice find you have in the Morris. These canoes have been around so long that previous owners have made so many "modifications" and we can only speculate why. Kathryn pointed out you are from MI (Hasslett) a short paddle down river from us folks in Frankenmuth. We would like to have you among our chapter as we have a few BN Morris boats among us. Please get back with me and I will send to your email our newsletter and calendar of events.
Keep those paddles wet, plenty of canoe time remains!
