Indian Girl Serial Number Research

[Dan Miller]

This is a summary of the Rushton Indian Girl serial number data I have collected over many years. I have not speculated on what the data means in this posting. I will update this posting as new information becomes available. Anyone is free to post additional information or discussion points below.

• Dan

What we know about Indian Girl serial numbers (as of 2025-01-14 )

• Indian first offered 1901 in all-wood and canvas. (Not in the 1899 catalog, a 1900 catalog has surfaced as of yet).
• Indian designed by JHR August 30, 1900, per 1902 catalog
• Indian Girl designed by JHR December 1901 per 1902 catalog

Serial Number Data

• 109 - Lowest recorded serial number
• 132 - was recanvased on Nov 27, 1909
• 2334 - lowest number recorded with Incorporated markings
• 2334-3018 +/- transition zone to Inc. markings? (i.e. canoes built for 1906 season before and after incorporation)
• 5108 - lowest recorded serial number with half ribs and 30” decks (sometimes confused with American Beauty)
• 5389 - only all-wood Indian Girl documented
• 5499 - highest recorded serial number
• 63-2 - serial number of only known Navahoe to date
• 60 canoes documented as of 2025-01-14
• 2 canoes with anomalous serial numbers (low numbers, late model features) could be Whistle Wing Indian Girls

Production Numbers

• 1902 - 200 (1904 Rushton Catalog)
• 1903 - 400 (1904 Rushton Catalog)
• 1904-1908 - ?
• 1909 - 309 (Fox Journal)
• 1910 - 283 (Fox Journal)
• 1911 - 99 (Fox Journal)
• 1912 - 80 (Fox Journal)
• 1913-1917 - ?

Dating

• Only a very few serial numbers can be tied to a date; it is not always clear if they refer to a new build or a repair
  • Fox ledger of Dec 5 1908 - 11 canoes built, references SN 3879; repairing SN 3811
  • Fox ledger of June 17, 1911 - Labor on #s 4281, 3962, 4013 (repairs?)
• The change from floor racks to half ribs took place for the 1913 season. SN 5108 (or lower).
• Open Gunwales appear in 1913.

Other important notes

• Rushton died May 1, 1906
• Incorporated at time of death (date?)
• Fox typically had crew of six to eight, built December through May for upcoming season
• Fox Ledger of July 8, 1909 reported wages as $0.45/hr
• Dec. 30, 1911 - Mrs. Rushton died. No work done on that day.

 

[MGC]

Interesting....presuming 5,499 is the EOP (which it is most likely is not) would we consider it possible that 4,128 canoes were built in the missing years, 1904-1908 and 1913-1917?
516 per year during those years? And yet 04 is the highest report annual number.
Puzzling.

Thank you for providing this view. This is information that only you could have assembled.

 

[1905Gerrish]

Dan,
How many recorded serail numbers in total currently?

 

[Benson Gray]

Dan reported 57 out of 5499 ten years ago as shown in the table at the link below. It has probably increased since then.

Benson

Thread 'What is the total number of wooden canoes that were made and how many still exist?'

Apr 29, 2015

I am occasionally asked "What is the total number of wooden canoes that were made and how many still exist?" but I've never had a good answer. Kathy's recent article in the Wooden Canoe Journal mentioned that there are a total of 335 Morris canoes in her database. This gave me an idea of how to come up with a better answer to the original questions as shown in the table below.

There are some records from the Old Town Canoe Company which indicate that the highest Morris serial number may be 17262. Kathy's total divided by this total produces a nearly 2% survival rate. It appears that...

• Benson Gray
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Research and History

 

[Dan Miller]

Dan,
How many recorded serail numbers in total currently?

As of now it is 60 Indian Girl canoes, 1 Navahoe, and 2 anomalie. I've updated the top post to add this information.

 

[Dan Miller]

I've also added the following tidbits from the Fox ledger:

• Only a very few serial numbers can be tied to a date; it is not always clear if they refer to a new build or a repair
  • Fox ledger of Dec 5 1908 - 11 canoes built, references SN 3879; repairing SN 3811
  • Fox ledger of June 17, 1911 - Labor on #s 4281, 3962, 4013 (repairs?)

Apologies for the way this is trickling out - it's been a while since I worked on this book project.
Dan

 

[JClearwater]

Dan,
If canoe #4281 was built or repaired on June 17, 1911 it's safe to say that any Indian Girl with a serial number lower than 4281 is older than that date. That assumes of course that the canoes were numbered sequentially, that there were no gaps in the numbering and that there were not any canoes "half built" that sat around and were finished out of order at a later date. Am I over thinking this?
Thanks for doing this. It's cool stuff.
Jim

 

[Dan Miller]

Hi JIm,

I think your reasoning is right on. My assumptions are that the numbering started at 100 and that they were sequential. My guess is that they weren't building enough to warehouse for a long time, as Old Town did.

Another data piece I remembered is that the specs for the Indian Girl changed between 1912 and 1913 - 1913 is when both Grades A and B were given an "inside floor" (i.e. half ribs). In the two catalogs after this, the deluxe version had long decks, which is why some of them are confused as being American Beauties.

 

[ticonderoga]

Dan,
Upon re-reading Atwood Manley's book on Rushton, he makes note of a few interesting fact that could help fill in some areas concerning production of Indian Girls. He states that in fall of 1904 Rushton built an addition onto the boat shop and in early 1905 he had a force of 25 men building canoes. In the following year 1906 all production numbers were broken with 750 Indian Girls being made. If Fox had a crew of 6 to 8 men that produced a high of 309 canoes, how many could 25 men have made in 1907? Another interesting fact that he states is that the principal builder Melvin Roundy left the business in 1908 and that no canvas canoes were built until 1910, two years of no production. This leaves a gap in production and sales were of on hand product left over from a slow economy and increased pricing due to material costs. I don't know if this adds anything to help with the numbers but very interesting none the less. Joe

 

[Dan Miller]

Hi Joe,

All good points. One of the things I am trying to do is verify Manley's research with primary sources, which can be a challenge. (I've gone through a lot, but not all, of the material at the St. Lawrence County Historical Society, where Manley's papers are held). A couple things stand out:

- Manley has Roundy as coming from Bangor. In fact, he came from Old Town, and we have (so far) no evidence he was in Bangor.
- the 25 men employed in 1904 were building both all-wood and canvas canoes (that is my interpretation) - what was the division of labor?
- There were both 1908 and 1909 Indian Girl catalogs printed. It doesn't necessarily preclude there being a gap in production, though.

 

[Benson Gray]

Manley has Roundy as coming from Bangor. In fact, he came from Old Town, and we have (so far) no evidence he was in Bangor.

I have searched the known electronic versions of the Bangor directories and can confirm that they contain no references to Melvin Roundy. There are several other people with the last name of Roundy who lived there. Let me know if anyone wants more details. Thanks,

Benson

 

[Dave Wermuth]

Dan, Does your data base have No. 3250? 3020?

 

[ticonderoga]

Dan is #3884 included?

 

[MGC]

This is a bit off in the weeds, but as I read this I can't help but think about the time I spent with Atwood. By the time I met him, he had written his book but he still had an interest in Rushton and Rushton's. He was certainly very proud of his own canoe. We spent quite a bit of time talking about canoes and he spent a bit of time looking over mine and also the form I have. He was very proud to show me his. He kept it on his porch. Can you imagine? A rare Rushton all wood canoe just sitting out on the porch.
My takeaway about Atwood is that he was first and foremost a journalist. Clearly, he was (at the time) as expert on the topic of Rushton (and his times) as anyone. I did not form an impression of him being as versed about canoes in general. He was not particularly "hands on". The Smith brothers, they were very hands on, so my impressions were formed contrasting his more academic approach and the work they were doing at Lake Ozonia.
Good times...... Dan, thank you for stirring this pot up again. It's long overdue.

 

[Worth Gretter]

A friend gave me the book (Rushton and His Times in American Canoeing) and I am about halfway. Enjoying it greatly. It is interesting that, even though the book was published in 1968, it is still in print. I assume that's because it's from Syracuse University Press instead of some commercial publisher.

 

[Dan Miller]

Dan, Does your data base have No. 3250? 3020?

Yes, it does. Thanks!

 

[Dan Miller]

Dan is #3884 included?

Yes it is, thanks!

 

[Dan Miller]

Thanks Mike (MGC) for your comments. First, I want to say that I do not mean to diss Atwood Manley in any way. He did a fantastic job, especially since he did not have the interwebs at his fingertips. He also had the advantage of being able to interview those around during the day, and especially getting to interview Harry. A certain former WCHA president who shall go unnamed (but whose initials were DB was convinced the Atwood got it all wrong. I disagree. I think Atwood was mostly on point. Where I want to take it is where Atwood was more concerned with Rushton's biography and the people around him, my focus is more on the boats themselves and the story they tell about Rushton and his cronies.

You may have met Paul Jamieson as well, I believe he and Atwood were friends. Paul was my mom's English professor when she was at SLU. Without diving into my bookcases, my recollection is that Paul wrote at least one essay about canoes and canoeing with Atwood Manley.

We won't visit Lake Ozonia at this time.

 

[MGC]

I tend to agree with you. Atwood managed to put a tremendous amount of valuable detail in print. As with almost any research, there are places where he may not have had everything 100 percent right, but I would never consider it a flawed work. I tend to agree with your view of the work.
I was simply trying to state my impressions of what I observed of him. He was first and foremost a journalist. He was most certainly not a draftsman. Those were skills that his daughter possessed and coincidently how I came to meet him. His daughter was teaching a class at Potsdam High School. There she heard about a student who carried an Indian Girl to class to use as a public speaking prop about Rushton canoes. I have had a lifelong struggle with go big or don't go.
Atwood spoke of paddling with Paul and I was totally into Paul's explorations and writings. My spiral bound copy of the North Flow guide is heavily worn. What an adventurer he was. He visited many places that were not easily accessible and wrote useful information about paddling them. To this day, I refer to his book when I paddle routes in and around the park.