ID help on a very nice canoe please?

[John Maderic]

I've been selling a few canoes to keep the restoration material money coming out of money already spent on my 'canoe thing.' But, I had to go look once my friend told me about his vintage snowmobile connection that also had some canoes. Among other things , the gentleman has this canoe pictured. He purchased it used @ 12 or 14 yrs ago as an old Adirondack built 'guide' type canoe. I'm just trying to forward the very little history of the canoe I was able to get. At one point ; he also mentioned it being called a 'reed' canoe. I estimate it at 16 feet. He said he paid 1450 or 1500 for it back then and gave me a price of what he expected it to bring now. I hope to visit him again in the next few days and get measurements, etc. He was a very nice and interesting man and after my offer was turned down, I offered to try and get more information for both him and I. Heres the pics I have so far.

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Looks like a Canadian built cedar strip canoe, maybe a Peterborough or Lakefield or similar. Too early to squint at my computer. Is that a tag on the coaming up front? What does it say? Of course its been painted, but it looks like a 44 or a Lakequeen or similar model.

 

[John Maderic]

Thanks Andre. Theres a 'shadow' on the coaming where there as a tag and two nail holes. When I get a chance to get more pictures, are there any specific shots or close-ups that will help more?

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Pretty sure its a Peterborough, just make sure it hasnt been fiberglassed. Have a good look from the inside to see if the paint is hiding any damage, as they are difficult to repair and that might have been a reason to paint it. Google or do a forum search and you will find lots of info about these. I sold a nice one that would need a refinish for less than he says he paid way back when, but i guess its worth what someone is wiling to pay for it. Stunning boats when done properly - just ask Steve Lapey

 

[John Maderic]

Im hoping to gain more information today, but I wanted to add I believe the ribs are stapled to the planking. looking at other Peterboroughs now I believe most are planking tacked to the ribs?

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Cedarstrips with lapped or grooved planks are clench nailed to the ribs. The boat is built over ribs bent to a form, not ribbed afterwards as in other construction methods.

 

[John Maderic]

Start of a long process

I was pretty sure it had been glassed, but confirmed that with my second visit. Knowing this and that it would be purchased as an investment to be worked on and put back quickly on the market in a more desirable situation, I made a deal with the seller and brought it home. With a small profit return for the bunch of hours to accomplish this, I felt I had a reasonable goal and keep within buying more materials towards my other restoration from my canoe workings. Probably in the end Ill mainly get the reward of brining the beauty of the wood on tis canoe back to view of the world around it. Started with a heat gun and soon worked out a slow and careful procedure of working the fiberglass loose. Keeping the heat gun moving and keeping careful track of the back side to watch no cedar was pulling with it, the process began. Constantly holding back any rush, and concentrating very close was essential. A lot of hours and 90% of the glass was removed. I then tried expensive stripper which claimed epoxy among other things; it didn't touch it hardly.The really effort and concentration part was yet to come. Trying different scrapers and putty knives, I ended up with a one inch chisel with the sharp corners just rounded a hair. Although normally the chisel is sharpened on just one side, I sharpened just a hair of an angle onto the bottom edge to leave it sharp but lessen its want to dig into the cedar. I clenched numerous tacks just a hair deeper to allow for easier scraping now and sanding later.The heatgun worked best for me 4" or 4 1/2' above the surface pointing almost straight down, angled slightly to keep the heat from blistering the fingers. Giving the heat a couple seconds to start then back and forth with the chisel in just 1/4 to 3/4" strokes; keeping the chisel almost flat to the canoe with barely room for a finger underneath it. I may boring some t death with the details, but hopefully can aid to someone trying it for the first time. I was constantly changing pressure to ensure not gouging any deeper than 1/32" if possible. I'll add as I go.

 

[John Maderic]

More interior pics for motivation, for myself if no-one else

Had to look at the inside to keep myself motivated

 

[John Maderic]

Still going...missing meals to use the daylight.

Trying to really get all the resin was around 18 hrs just in itself. The sanding was done using a 5" orbital. 120 grit Makita sanding pads seemed to work aggressively enough for a first pass removing the film of resin left and smoothing out any nicks, etc. Even just a little resin quickly makes a pad useless. Just over a 100 pads later, the hull is 95%. Care had to be taken not to sand the tack heads more than a quick shining and nail punch, hammer and clenching iron were out often. The two end pieces of the stem where left partially attached just as a time saver removing the stubborn resined it screws.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Impressive work!

 

[mccloud]

John, Your canoe looks similar to one I am working on, and in the 4th photo above it looks like there is some space between a couple strips, as there is with my canoe. What is the plan to close that? Is there any cupping of strips? Was a brass stemband standard for Peterboroughs? What is the width of it? Tom McCloud

 

[John Maderic]

Thanks, Andre, Greg, and Tom for responding. On this canoe, theres the random spacing between planking, and also some cracked planks. I'm thinking the spaces due to shrinking are now part of the canoe and am not going to attempt to somehow close them up. The cracked planks I'm trying to decide if to fill the cracks with epoxy to give the planks back their strength and eliminate possible leakage. I was thinking possibly a syringe type applicator for that process. I hadn't originally planned on going farther than I am now, and offering it for sale for someone to finish. That was my original plan, to do the step that most wouldn't attempt and make a marginal fee for just that. Now that I've thrown it out to the forum members to see, I'm open for suggestions. I did want to add that when I was scraping the resin off, its was sometimes a directional thing, and if the grain on a plank at all showed a tendency to 'grab' the chisel, I would start from the other end and work the opposite way. Some planks would change midway, so it was a constant to work with the grain, not against it. I would also advise removing the resin from a small area, then try sanding to see what exactly your doing to the surface and how it will sand out. I did this as I was a bit horrified of the dark color of the wood surface having heated it and removed the resin. It was actually the color of the surface from having the resin on it and age. And to sand that darkened surface off took very little more than the surface off. I don't have any planking that has cupped. I can see where whoever refinished it before didn't perfectly fit the exterior stems to the hull, etc. I knew when I took this project on , its not a $5000 and never will be, but it could be looking a lot better and being enjoyed and be seen by others.

 

[John Maderic]

Thank you Peter: I appreciate your opinion and also respect it fully. I'm learning as I go along and posted this side project hoping not only I, but some others might learn from my experience, even if at my expense. This was a one time attempt I took with the circumstances as I seen them. If it ends up being a break even or losing project, and the canoe finds a new home and is used, I'll look at it as a gain. I've read a lot of your posts and am thankful there are those like you that add so much here for others to learn and grow from.

 

[Andre Cloutier]

John, great work on a tedious job. Have passed on many a canoe and boat that someone had sanded aggressively and taken the heads off of the tacks, rendering the boat junk. Drying can be a problem and likley you've found the reason for the glass. Keep going, here's some inspiration in a Peterborough Comet i did a while back, the blue paint held on like iron. It handnt been treated kindly over the last 80+ years but it came back, scars and all.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

John,

Nice work, love the pics and following along as you put this back on the water.

But, that's this "back quickly" you're talking about, I'm lucky to get a project completed in a year.
I can relate to the "small profit" and "bunch of hours" though.

Dan

"that it would be purchased as an investment to be worked on and put back quickly on the market in a more desirable situation, I made a deal with the seller and brought it home. With a small profit return for the bunch of hours to accomplish this,

 

[John Maderic]

Thanks for the motivation Dan. I'm attempting to finish a Kennebec and an OT Otca before spring and of course the Assembly. My work and business project should be getting going soon, but I have some time now so am trying to do things right when there's no money coming in. The list of assorted tacks, screws, filler, canvas, and on and on; just can't be taken from the business capital, as that's stretched already. I've sold several of the canoes that I could bare to part with and could probably replace in some way in the future. It's like the very beast that's within (canoe addiction beast) now has to devour part of itself to survive. I put the Peterborough on the side burner for a few days while I decide the next steps there and did a third thin coat of stripper on a personal project, my Kennebec. I wanted to make sure I re-dissolved any dried stripper and varnish remnants from two previous coats then TSP'd , rinsed and did the two part teak cleaner from Jamestown. I see just like how past customers there said to get extra part 2, I used two quarts of #2 to neutralize the one quart of #1. I;ve been reading on here and also on Wooden boat forum all the different opinions on Varnish. I'm using Efiphanes , but am now thinking I should also get the same brand thinner.

 

[dtdcanoes]

SAME THINNER..absolutely !! and in fact always use the manufacturers compatible thinning product when you can do so. And you can use less expensive TRADITIONAL varnishes as build up coats and finish with Epi gloss or satin. I have never used the TSP rinse, perhaps because of the little 1100 PSI power washer that performs miracles ( only if one pays attention ) But the Snappy Teak is very effective stuff. I think I have used it on every boat I have stripped. Sounds like you should take a lifetime WCHA membership when appropriate. The " right stuff " here, no doubt ! Dave