Help me pick what I need for this restoration

[don1357]

I have a good amount of experience with woodworking but this is my first canoe. The first decision I need to make is what material to use for the skin. I would like to use #8 canvas to save on weight (the canoe is not expected to see heavy workhorse type of use) but the frame has plenty of gaps. Even after sanding the surface smooth and proper filling, would the lighter canvas make those gaps more noticeable?

The next item is compounded by the fact that I'm in Alaska, part of the triunvirate of "...does not ship to Alaska, Hawaii, or Puerto Rico". I may have to mix my own filler which seems pretty straightforward:

* 43 oz. double-boiled linseed oil
* 21 oz. mineral spirits
* 34 oz. enamel
* 2 oz. Japan drier
* 2 oz. spar varnish
* 6.25 lbs. powered silica (300-325 mesh)

The terms enamel and spar varnish have degrade to the point they seem to be generic; nowadays there are water-based finishes with those labels. Is it enough to just make sure whatever enamel and spar varnish I get are oil-based?

Is there a suitable oil based paint that can be found at home depot, Lowes, or similar place? This may be the one item I may have to wait for a trip to the lower 48 for the chance to buy and bring on my luggage.

 

[Howie]

Hello! Welcome!
There is so so much to tell you. The problem is where to begin & where to stop...
* First, #12 is the lighter weight canvas. And it's important to either buy the canvas pre-impregnated with a mildewcide - or you can add liguid mildewcide mixed in with the filler
* Sorry - can't help on making canvas filler.
* Don't worry so much about the 'gaps' in the planking. Stretched canvas is wonderful for spanning these gaps.
* Be sure that none of the tacks stand above the planking - they'll be obvious through the canvas. And when in doubt, pull an old one out and tack in a new one. BUT be sure to place a heavy item (like a piece of brass, steel, smooth stone) behind the tack so the end of the tack can 'clench' properly.
* This canoe looks to me like some Canadian made model. They're not known for fine finish work on the outside of the planking. I'd recommend using some sort of sander and smooth down the outside - especially where two planks meet. Sanding is also a great way to identify 'proud' tack heads.

Good luck! This is the right place to ask questions!

 

[MGC]

Howie could have continued for days, he's done that many canoes.
As he notes, there is so much information to share and so much more you acquire with each job you tackle.
It's not a popular form of media anymore, but there are several books that are worth owning that will help you to learn some of the information you need. I recommend that you purchase a copy of Rollin Thurlow and Jerry Stelmoks book, The Wood and Canvas Canoe to browse and study. It is available from this site.. https://www.woodencanoe.org/product-page/the-wood-canvas-canoe-a-complete-guide
I understand that Mike Elliots book is a good one to refer to. I have browsed his website from time to time and if the content is similar, it is probably worth owning.. https://www.woodencanoe.org/product-page/this-old-canoe-how-to-restore-your-wood-canvas-canoe
Jerry Stelmok has also written several books that are worth owning, one about Seliga, another about the Maine Canoe...
Also on this site is a builders and suppliers section. Browse that to learn where you can buy tacks, clinching irons, hammers, wood, screws, stem bands....all that "stuff" we use when we restore a canoe.
Paint and varnish.....yes, it is possible to go off into the weeds, but don't. For the time it takes to prep a hull, I never cut corners on those. My personal favorite paint is Epifanes. It's worth every penny it costs. Great colors and consistent predictable performance. I also use Epifanes varnish. There are other brands of paint and varnish. If you search this site, they are all mentioned. Captains and Petit are my alternative choices. I have never used Rustoleum porch paint on a canoe and I am pretty sure that I never will..... or urethane varnish.
Before you canvas the prepped hull, many of us slather the hull with an oil or wood treatment. Some use tung oil, others use thinned varnish, Rollin suggests warm BLO (boiled linseed oil). I use a warm mix of BLO, turpentine and mineral spirits (60/25/15). This penetrates and also dries, unlike straight BLO... Watch out for "boat soup" recipes if you see them. They are intended for wooden canoes to fill gaps.....
Resist the urge to mix anything with wood dust and use it to fare the hull. The canvas, as Howie notes, will hide a lot of imperfections. Unless you are making a show canoe for display or Omering, you will soon have it dinged up enough that those small imperfections will no longer be noticeable.
Once you get going, you can get very specific help from this forum. Good luck!

 

[Howie]

Howie could have continued for days, he's done that many canoes.

Mike: Thanks for refraining from using the word pontificate.

 

[MGC]

You are going to have to stand in line for a crack at Pontif. Its been spoken for.

 

[don1357]

Thanks to both of you, most appreciated. I already got the first book suggested and please assume I have seen several of the videos online covering the basics.

I'm a fan of Tung oil for sealing purposes. It polymerizes to a stronger and more water proof finish. Like boiled linseed oil it penetrates well and can build up with no issues; even a year old finish would take a recoat where it softens and merge with the previous finish.

My main issue is the availability of proper chemicals; often companies refuse to ship things up here that should have no issue shipping here. They do ship USPS, a flat rate box is every bit as flat rate, and taking a box to the post office doesn't take any more effort whether it goes to AK, HI, or PR, but nope; we don't ship to those places. When it comes to chemical things that must ship ground well that can be an issue.

The skinning material should be easy enough with no issues to ship here. What are the practicalities of considering Dacron over cotton? All the videos I'm finding on using Dacron are on a different type of frame, not planks but bars to keep the general shape. I'm not particularly tempted to go down this rabbit hole just yet but I figure it would not hurt to ask.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

A couple thoughts -

Study Rollin and Jerry's book, a couple of times.
Buy all your material from a MARINE supplier.
Wood/canvas have been built/manufactured for more than 125 years, don't try to re-invent the wheel on your 1st canoe.
And less general, the one time I tried to mix my own filler it was a disaster, I don't reccomend it.

 

[Howie]

As to Dacron.... I'm new to Dacron, and have only done 4. The prep work seems to take far longer for Dacron, but that's true only if you've already made the paraphernalia needed to stretch the canvas. Like you'll spend a lot of time fiddling with positioning double-sided heat tape. Then once you start ironing/heating the Dacron you'll spend a lot of time trying fretting whether it is stretched enough. It does indeed save some weight, and you can start priming and painting as soon as you like - no 6 week period waiting for the mud to dry. But canvassing - if you know what you're doing - is much more fun. BTW, I wouldn't use Dacron unless the outside of the planking is quite smooth and even because most any defect will be visible to some extent.

 

[1905Gerrish]

Hey Don and Welcome!

I'd recommend #10 canvas.

Mixing Filler is easy. It will save you $50 to do it yourself. I've been doing it for 30 years. Finding proper silica can be a bit difficult but a half gallon-ish from any pottery producer is all you need. When mixing, save the thinner for the last ingredient as it's a FILLER additive and you might not get it all in. As Howie mentioned, I also recommend a mildew additive as it's only a few dollars. All oil based ingredients! Wear a mask mixing because of the silica.

Do yourself a favor and purchase marine topside paint. I've found that epifanes and interlux as the most forgiving. Same brands for the marine oil based varnish.

Zack