A question about this filler recipe.

[ken mueller]

I would be interested in feedback from anyone who has used this filler recipe from the Wooden Canoe #16. 43 oz boiled linseed oil, 21 oz mineral spirits, 34 oz enamel paint**, 2 oz japan drier, 6 1/4 lb 300 grit silica, 2 oz spar varnish.
**Is this any enamel paint, any color?
Is this enough filler for a 16 ft. (St Louis meramek) canoe?
Thanks!

 

[Dan Miller]

I've used this recipe, seems to work fine. It is essentially Old Town's unleaded recipe. It is more than enough to fill a 16' canoe (you'll probably have left-overs, so get an empty metal paint can from the hardware to store the extra.

There is no mildicide activity, due to the absence of the white lead. So use treated canvas or add a mildicide (or both).

There is no magic to the color of the paint you use. Some like to tint the filler close to the final paint color so scratches are less obvious. Others like to contrast with the final paint color so that deep scratches are easily seen and repaired. If you plan to paint your canoe red, then gray is the best color to use for your filler, as gray primer under red paint is essential.

Make sure you allow the filler to cure fully before finishing.

 

[greatlakes]

Where can one find the japan drier and silica?

Frank

 

[Douglas Ingram]

This is basically the filler that I use. I've made a few adjustments, but pretty minor.

I substitute clear wood preservative for the paint thinner. The one that I use has zinc napthanate as an active ingredient.

I leave out that tiny bit of varnish. I can't see what essential quality that it is contributing to the mix.

I use beer cups for meauring. Check the volume of the cup, but for mine it works out to 3 parts boiled linseed oil, 2 parts enamel, 1.5 parts thinner.

I use the same enamel that I use for painting the canoe, but you don't need to use really high end paint! I'm in the camp that likes to have a similar colour of filler as finish paint.

You can get Japan Drier from good paint stores, I've even seen it in Home Despot. If the clerk serving you doesn't know what it is, you're in the wrong store...

Silica you can get from a ceramic/pottery supply company in your neighbourhood. Ask a potter if you need help finding it.

 

[Dan Miller]

Here's an online source for the silica - http://www.standardceramic.com/ - I've never used them, and it looks like you'll need to order 100 pounds. Best to find your local pottery source, then you only have to buy 50 pounds and can avoid shipping...

I used to substitute the preservative for the thinner too, but it is harder and harder (impossible?) to find oil-based preservatives in the states anymore. Can't get zinc napthenate here either. You can still get copper napthenate, but pretty much only in 5 gallon pails from industrial supply. I now use the little packets of mildicide that are in the paint section of the hardware.

 

[bob goeckel]

when you say "clear wood preservative" do you mean a product like Thompson's water seal?

any pottery supply will have silica but most call it "flint" it's very cheep.

 

[ken mueller]

I've used this recipe, seems to work fine. It is essentially Old Town's unleaded recipe. It is more than enough to fill a 16' canoe (you'll probably have left-overs, so get an empty metal paint can from the hardware to store the extra.

There is no mildicide activity, due to the absence of the white lead. So use treated canvas or add a mildicide (or both).

There is no magic to the color of the paint you use. Some like to tint the filler close to the final paint color so scratches are less obvious. Others like to contrast with the final paint color so that deep scratches are easily seen and repaired. If you plan to paint your canoe red, then gray is the best color to use for your filler, as gray primer under red paint is essential.

Make sure you allow the filler to cure fully before finishing.

Thanks, Dan. Just curious as to why gray primer under red is essential? Is there a chemical/physical reason? Or are you a Buckeye fan?

 

[Dan Miller]

curious as to why gray primer under red is essential?

It's just the nature of red pigment. For best color, red wants to be atop grey. II learned the hard way what happens when you put red over white primer...)

 

[mark wismer]

Wasn't there an old B movie, a WW II comedy of navy nurses 'rescued' by a leaky old sub that get's repair and painted w/ a mix of red oxide primer & white...a pink submarine?

 

[Dan Miller]

Bob,

I don't know Thompson's products that well, so don't know what they really are or can do for you (my limited experience with Water Seal has resulted in a nearly full can remaining unused in the basement for years. Didn't seem to work all that well for me...)

If you are mixing with filler, you basically want something poisonous in an oil-based carrier - like the zinc napthenate Douglas mentioned, or the copper napthenate that was in the old clear Cuprinol (clear Cuprinol is now water based). I've pre-treated canvas with water-based preservative prior to filling. I make sure there are no silicones (which often added as water repellents) and that the manufacturer clearly states the preservative can be painted. It needs to dry thoroughly before filling. Since one of the fillers I use regularly is water-based, this is less an issue.

As with all things of this nature, you should test all the various goops you use to ensure compatibility.

 

[bob goeckel]

dan, i guess i was fishing for a brand name instead of just a generic "clear wood preservative" thompson's was just the most known name i came up with.

 

[Dan Miller]

Sorry Bob, since Clear Cuprinol went water-based, I haven't found an alternative to mix directly in filler (which is why I now add those little mildicide packets from the paint department). If you want to try to order in some copper napthenate concentrate in bulk, I'll see if I can dig out the source...

The water-based preservative I've used to pretreat canvas is DAP Woodlife - I think the ownership changed so it may not be under DAP any more (maybe Wolman?)

Best,
Dan

 

[bob goeckel]

thanks dan!!!!!

 

[ken mueller]

This is basically the filler that I use. I've made a few adjustments, but pretty minor.

I substitute clear wood preservative for the paint thinner. The one that I use has zinc napthanate as an active ingredient.

I leave out that tiny bit of varnish. I can't see what essential quality that it is contributing to the mix.

I use beer cups for meauring. Check the volume of the cup, but for mine it works out to 3 parts boiled linseed oil, 2 parts enamel, 1.5 parts thinner.

I use the same enamel that I use for painting the canoe, but you don't need to use really high end paint! I'm in the camp that likes to have a similar colour of filler as finish paint.

You can get Japan Drier from good paint stores, I've even seen it in Home Despot. If the clerk serving you doesn't know what it is, you're in the wrong store...

Silica you can get from a ceramic/pottery supply company in your neighbourhood. Ask a potter if you need help finding it.

Just wondering about the enamel paint. Am I right in looking for oil-based as opposed to latex? Also does the finish make a difference ( glossy, matte, satin, etc)? Thanks!

 

[martin ferwerda]

Yes, you would want an oil based paint, I typically use Benjamin Moore porch and floor alkyd enamel. I doubt the gloss vs matte really makes any difference by the time you add all that silica to the mix.

 

[ken mueller]

I've used this recipe, seems to work fine. It is essentially Old Town's unleaded recipe. It is more than enough to fill a 16' canoe (you'll probably have left-overs, so get an empty metal paint can from the hardware to store the extra.

There is no mildicide activity, due to the absence of the white lead. So use treated canvas or add a mildicide (or both).

There is no magic to the color of the paint you use. Some like to tint the filler close to the final paint color so scratches are less obvious. Others like to contrast with the final paint color so that deep scratches are easily seen and repaired. If you plan to paint your canoe red, then gray is the best color to use for your filler, as gray primer under red paint is essential.

Make sure you allow the filler to cure fully before finishing.

Dan, I hope you're right about the color of the paint being unimportant. I picked up a gallon of paint that was mixed wrong for 4 dollars. Gawd-awful bright yellow!