Good smaller tandem for solo?

[revcp]

Hi, All
I am a pastor in Minnesota, and found out just a few days ago that I have been awarded funding for a sabbatical from the Lilly Foundation's Clergy Renewal Program. The first six weeks of the sabbatical will be spent on the water (three weeks solo in the BWCA, then three weeks with a friend in the Quetico) before six weeks traveling with my wife and boys.

I use my 1928 OT 18' Otca for 2 person trips (and in spite of it not being built as a tripping canoe, it's a GREAT tripping canoe), but it's of course not a good choice for paddling solo. So I'm in the market for a smaller wood canvas. I plan on getting a tandem that's versatile, because paddling close to home with my wife will be easier with a smaller and lighter craft, and when we do trips as a family we can have both canoes. My upper end on pricing is about $2,200.

I'm looking at a Cheemaun built by urbanboatbuilders in St. Paul (from a form loaned to them by Robin Thurlow). I'm also trying to get a response back from someone who has a 15' Will Ruch canoe on Craigslist. Any other suggestions either generally, i.e. model, or specifically, i.e. a canoe your are selling or that know is for sale?

Thanks, all! Looking forward to getting responses!

 

[WoodNCanvas]

The Cheemaun, at 15 ft....or the Will Ruch 15 fter....either will make for a great solo tripping canoe....

Cheemaun Specifications:
~ Length......... 15 ft.
~ Depth.......... 12"
~ Beam........... 35"
~ Bow Height..... 20 1/2"
~ Weight......... 62 lbs.

Will Ruch canoe:
15' width at gunnel 31"
width at 4" waterline 32"
depth 13"
slight rocker
weight 45-55 pounds
15' available in solo version

The Cheemaun will be wider at 35 inches (and the plans I have for the Cheemaun from The Wood & Canvas Canoe states length as 15'2") and is described on Rollin's website as:

The Cheemaun 15 will serve tandem paddlers very handily on short trips and for day paddling, but is also good for the solo wilderness traveler.

Cheemaun's volume allows such an adventurer plenty of space and buoyancy for a complete outfit - often absent in solo canoes, and the straight keel line makes straight tracking an easy matter. The relatively flat bottom affords the paddler an opportunity to explore the shallow streams feeding into a waterway, and likewise provides the stability necessary for safely carrying young passengers, and for poling.

You might also want to look for used Chestnut Chum (or Peterborough Minetta) canoes....and if you were looking for just a solo canoe....

Not sure if this is still available....but there is a class built Unity for sale in WCHA Classified, http://wcha.org/pp-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=167&title=solo-canoe-unity&cat=3, which seems like a bargain at $650....from Stewart River design, described as:

A wood and canvas solo canoe with many merits: easy to handle, steady, responsive, yet it tracks well. Not a speed daemon, this boat will glide through the water efficiently.

For me (180 lbs), this is the perfect boat on a short wilderness trip or for a day paddle, poking up a stream or gliding back down it. This boat will "dance" around the rocks and slide into the eddy behind them with the minimum amount of effort. I love the way this canoe handles on streams!

I have taken this boat on many camping trips. On longer trips, the Traveler has more reserve and is a bit swifter under paddle. Maximum carrying capacity is about 340 lbs.

Seat can be mounted fixed or sliding, using brass fittings on hardwood rail. The sliding seat can be set either flat or canted.

Moderate tumblehome, 7/8" of rocker with a shallow arched hull.

Length: 14'10" Weight: 40 lbs.
Width at gunwale: 27" Depth at midships: 12"
Width at beam: 29 3/4" Height at ends: 17"
Width at 4" WL 28"

You might want to look at some 16ft models too....like Chestnut Pal or Peterborough Champlain....better as tandem boats than 15 fters, especially for tripping....still can be soloed reasonably easily....

Maybe even look at 15 ft. Chestnut Prospector models (Ranger) which would have plenty of capacity for tripping....

Personally I do a fair bit of solo tripping (guess nobody likes to paddle with me LOL LOL)....I have used 15 ft. Minetta (and Chum) for short solo trips of up to 15 days....I now use a 16 ft. wood canvas canoe based on a Chestnut Cruiser design (Kruger model)....partly because it's my personal favourite....narrower than most 16 fters so a dream to paddle solo....still has enough capacity for trips I tend to take....usually no more than 2 weeks....

 

[revcp]

Wow. Great information! Thanks!

 

[shelldrake]

15 foot Old Town 50 Lb Model?

Matt

 

[robin]

15 ft Chestnut Chum or Bob's Special, both tandems, the Chum is narrower but both make great tripping boats.
I don't know of any for sale, but worth watching out for and checking out. I have used both for solo trips and find them to be a nice paddling canoe. And with their reputation for not be well made towards the end of the Chestnut era, you won't feel bad about banging them around, they can take it.

Here's my Bobs on the left, a Chum in the middle and a Pal on the right. BTW, I have done many solo trips in the Pal also, but wanted to downsize as the legs get a little weary on the portages.

Sounds like a nice trip you have planned.

 

[revcp]

15 ft Chestnut Chum or Bob's Special, both tandems, the Chum is narrower but both make great tripping boats.
I don't know of any for sale, but worth watching out for and checking out. I have used both for solo trips and find them to be a nice paddling canoe. And with their reputation for not be well made towards the end of the Chestnut era, you won't feel bad about banging them around, they can take it.

Here's my Bobs on the left, a Chum in the middle and a Pal on the right. BTW, I have done many solo trips in the Pal also, but wanted to downsize as the legs get a little weary on the portages.

Sounds like a nice trip you have planned.

Beautiful canoes, Robin! I'm going to keep stalking various classifieds for something similar. I'm also in conversation with a fellow in Iowa who could build a 16' for me that sounds interesting. Fire a pm my way if you hear of anything for sale!

Steve

 

[revcp]

The Cheemaun, at 15 ft....or the Will Ruch 15 fter....either will make for a great solo tripping canoe....

Cheemaun Specifications:
~ Length......... 15 ft.
~ Depth.......... 12"
~ Beam........... 35"
~ Bow Height..... 20 1/2"
~ Weight......... 62 lbs.

Will Ruch canoe:
15' width at gunnel 31"
width at 4" waterline 32"
depth 13"
slight rocker
weight 45-55 pounds
15' available in solo version

The Cheemaun will be wider at 35 inches (and the plans I have for the Cheemaun from The Wood & Canvas Canoe states length as 15'2") and is described on Rollin's website as:

The Cheemaun 15 will serve tandem paddlers very handily on short trips and for day paddling, but is also good for the solo wilderness traveler.

Cheemaun's volume allows such an adventurer plenty of space and buoyancy for a complete outfit - often absent in solo canoes, and the straight keel line makes straight tracking an easy matter. The relatively flat bottom affords the paddler an opportunity to explore the shallow streams feeding into a waterway, and likewise provides the stability necessary for safely carrying young passengers, and for poling.

You might also want to look for used Chestnut Chum (or Peterborough Minetta) canoes....and if you were looking for just a solo canoe....

Not sure if this is still available....but there is a class built Unity for sale in WCHA Classified, http://wcha.org/pp-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=167&title=solo-canoe-unity&cat=3, which seems like a bargain at $650....from Stewart River design, described as:

A wood and canvas solo canoe with many merits: easy to handle, steady, responsive, yet it tracks well. Not a speed daemon, this boat will glide through the water efficiently.

For me (180 lbs), this is the perfect boat on a short wilderness trip or for a day paddle, poking up a stream or gliding back down it. This boat will "dance" around the rocks and slide into the eddy behind them with the minimum amount of effort. I love the way this canoe handles on streams!

I have taken this boat on many camping trips. On longer trips, the Traveler has more reserve and is a bit swifter under paddle. Maximum carrying capacity is about 340 lbs.

Seat can be mounted fixed or sliding, using brass fittings on hardwood rail. The sliding seat can be set either flat or canted.

Moderate tumblehome, 7/8" of rocker with a shallow arched hull.

Length: 14'10" Weight: 40 lbs.
Width at gunwale: 27" Depth at midships: 12"
Width at beam: 29 3/4" Height at ends: 17"
Width at 4" WL 28"

You might want to look at some 16ft models too....like Chestnut Pal or Peterborough Champlain....better as tandem boats than 15 fters, especially for tripping....still can be soloed reasonably easily....

Maybe even look at 15 ft. Chestnut Prospector models (Ranger) which would have plenty of capacity for tripping....

Personally I do a fair bit of solo tripping (guess nobody likes to paddle with me LOL LOL)....I have used 15 ft. Minetta (and Chum) for short solo trips of up to 15 days....I now use a 16 ft. wood canvas canoe based on a Chestnut Cruiser design (Kruger model)....partly because it's my personal favourite....narrower than most 16 fters so a dream to paddle solo....still has enough capacity for trips I tend to take....usually no more than 2 weeks....

WoodNCanvas,
Any thoughts on this? http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/boa/2604040250.html

 

[WoodNCanvas]

Could be a Pal or an Ajax. As I said in reonse to your query elsewhere on this:

Certainly not wanting to dispute anything Rollin would say, but I didn't think there were any serial numbers on the bow stems of Chestnuts (Peterboroughs had serial numbers, but Chestnuts????)....and if the canoe is a Pleasure model from 1930s or 40s then not a Pal as Pals didn't come out until mid 1950s....so likely an Ajax....
The half ribs are interesting....
Transport would cost a bit I'd think....unless you can find somebody from here who would transport it....

If from 30s or 40s and a Pleasure model, then likely an Ajax....Pal didn't come out until 1954-56....would need to see canoe in person to really tell....so I'm uncertain as to exact model....half ribs are interesting....but I believe could be ordered if wanted on most models....but if you were thinking of using as solo canoe this could be a bit heavy....

 

[robin]

15 ft Chestnut Ranger in Ontario....

I saw this and figure you might be interested. Not sure how far from MN it is, but if you sign up for "alerts" on KiJiJi for Chestnut canoes or any brand you want, they will send you emails like this, nice feature and you can see what these canoes are going for. Many are way overpriced but worth a try. I think this Ranger is a re-list so the price might have dropped.
Again, western Ontario and Manitoba probably have some fine canoes posted here.
Thanks to WoodnCanvas for telling me about this website.

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAd?A...ts&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email_alerts

Sounds like the canoe had a nice history, it was listed a few weeks ago and I assume this is a relist.

 

[revcp]

Hi, Robin
Thanks for sending me the link. I actually have traded emails with the seller, initially when it appeared to be in pristine condition. Makes me nervous that he says he knew nothing of the damage to the canoe and had listed it for higher, even though he claims in his ad that his father owns/owned the canoe. I have a ceiling for my budget, so with a canoe where there is something wrong, then something more wrong I get nervous!
I had searched kijiki, but only throuhg google. Did not know about the alerts. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[WoodNCanvas]

I saw this and figure you might be interested. Not sure how far from MN it is, but if you sign up for "alerts" on KiJiJi for Chestnut canoes or any brand you want, they will send you emails like this, nice feature and you can see what these canoes are going for. Many are way overpriced but worth a try. I think this Ranger is a re-list so the price might have dropped.
Again, western Ontario and Manitoba probably have some fine canoes posted here.
Thanks to WoodnCanvas for telling me about this website.

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAd?A...ts&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email_alerts

Sounds like the canoe had a nice history, it was listed a few weeks ago and I assume this is a relist.

Kijiji is great source for old canoes....however the canoe listed is not likely a Chestnut Ranger (which was 15 ft. Prospector), since not wide enough at about 33 inches....Ranger was 35 in. wide....I think it is more likely a Chum....apparently from 1970s when construction was sometimes questionable as far as quality goes....but could make a great canoe restoration project....though bit too far from Minnesota to transport from Toronto; and work involved if done professionally might be beyond budget of revcp....Robin is right that the ad is a 're-list'

 

[revcp]

In my experience, most canoeists, and most outdoors folks in general, like stories. So for those who might be subscribed to this thread, I thought I would let you know how this particular story is wrapping up. I was initially looking at a 15' Cheemaun at urbanboatbuilders. I was also hoping to hear from the seller of a 15' Will Ruch canoe, but was having no luck. I eventually paddled the Cheemaun the second weekend in October and was disappointed that it was a bit too beamy for me and shallow enough that I could not get my feet under the bow seat to paddle solo reversed. Very well made and good looking canoe, but I just couldn't make it work. In the process of looking around I considered several 16 footers (including the Prospector copy that David Gilligan has advertised in the wcha classifieds--gorgeous boat that made my final two, but it was more of a tandem, and therefore functionally too close to the 18' Otca I own to warrant purchasing it as my second canoe), a 15' footer from a builder in Erin, Ontario and possible new builds from gentlemen in Illinois and Iowa. Yesterday I was, once again, paddling the web and decided to make another query about the Ruch canoe in case it had not yet sold. I was in luck. The seller emailed me back, we exchanged a few more emails and then spoke over the phone last night. I will happily be purchasing his well cared for Will Ruch 15 footer to use for the three week solo leg of the six week trip that will begin my sabbatical next summer. I couldn't be more pleased. My wife has been kidding me about my "new love". I told her that I have been fretting this so, thinking I would make a buy and then regret the ones I didn't get. But, thankfully, I don't feel that way at all. Similar to how I felt 17 years and two weeks ago tomorrow when I married Jennifer. Thanks so much to all of you for your advice along the way, especially to Steve Lapey for steering me away from one of the canoes that really interested me.
Happy Paddling!
Steve

 

[revcp]

It would be very hard to beat that Will Ruch canoe. It weighs 45 lbs and is in perfect condition.

Thanks, Peter. Tom mentioned you last night during our conversation. It's always reassuring to hear corroborating opinions from people more knowledgeable than myself.

 

[WoodNCanvas]

Steve, you will be happy with the Will Ruch canoe (I'm assuming it is one on Rochester Craigslist)....a very fair price for what is a work of art....Will builds a very nice canoe....love the details with birds' eye decks, cherry trim....the Seconite makes for a nice light canoe too....this should make for a great solo canoe (especially if that is a kneeling thwart like it appears)....and one you'll love to paddle on your sabbatical next summer....keep us posted on everything....and enjoy....

 

[WoodNCanvas]

Sweet looking canoe....love the kneeling thwart too....nice feature on a solo canoe....

 

[revcp]

Sweet looking canoe....love the kneeling thwart too....nice feature on a solo canoe....

Yes, it's nice to see that kind of forethought from a builder. I'll have to move it back a bit, though, as it's too close to where the yoke will go. Hate the thought of having to drill four more holes into those inwales and fill the existing ones. If I were Bill Gates I would ship the canoe to Will's shop and plead with him to drill and fill.

 

[WoodNCanvas]

I don't think I'd move it back....I believe you'll find that the kneeling thwart is there because that the best place to kneel and heel over canoe in Canadian Style paddling (or Omering)....either replace the kneeling thwart entirely with yoke....OR better yet learn to portage without yoke....just tying in paddles and going is an option....see http://www.porchlight.ca/~aferg/home_htpac.html for more info....here is what this article says about yoke:

The carved yoke. The purpose of a carved wooden yoke is to sell canoes and its job is done once the canoe leaves the showroom. It is not carved for your shoulders, my shoulders, or the shoulders of anyone you know. Even if it were, it would only fit when the canoe is level. Like any yoke, it is designed to pound your shoulders and inflict pain within the first 100 meters. It is also intended to slice into your neck on your way downhill, and slide off going uphill. Your arm is meant to fall asleep as you grasp the gunwhale to keep the canoe in place. At least if you wipe out the canoe will roll off you.

Another great article is http://paddling.net/sameboat/archives/sameboat280.html

 

[MGC]

Warning, thread hi-jack

OR better yet learn to portage without yoke....just tying in paddles and going is an option...

Except trying to carry a canoe with two people, I can't think of anything worse than using paddles for a portage.
That Paddling article is not aligned with my experience.
I can't say I'm as experienced at portages as others may be, but I've done several carries of two miles or more with my 20 foot White and several hundred more shorter and longer with other canoes... The paddle carry is something most of us grow out of after our first Boy Scout canoe trip.

I do not use a yoke but I have from time to time. A well made one is "OK" and certainly better than paddles.
I prefer a thwart for a carry. It's the easiest to balance with and also the most natural to toss the canoe to your shoulders.
I use a towel around my neck to ease the pressure and I have also duct taped a piece of tubular insulation on the thwart from time to time.
Your PFD can also make a nice cushion.

The problems with using the paddles are (among other things) the time it takes to fool around getting them ready to use, the fact that they hardly ever stay put, the virtual impossibility of getting the canoe on and off your shoulders alone (unless you perch the canoe on something...not every carry has the optimum perch for that purpose and of course the most obvious of all, paddles (at least not mine) are rarely the same size so the adjustment (centering) of this makeshift yoke (yes, you made a yoke!) is impossible.

From my experience the best portage is done using the thwart

 

[revcp]

I don't think I'd move it back....I believe you'll find that the kneeling thwart is there because that the best place to kneel and heel over canoe in Canadian Style paddling (or Omering)....either replace the kneeling thwart entirely with yoke....OR better yet learn to portage without yoke....just tying in paddles and going is an option....see http://www.porchlight.ca/~aferg/home_htpac.html for more info....here is what this article says about yoke:

The carved yoke. The purpose of a carved wooden yoke is to sell canoes and its job is done once the canoe leaves the showroom. It is not carved for your shoulders, my shoulders, or the shoulders of anyone you know. Even if it were, it would only fit when the canoe is level. Like any yoke, it is designed to pound your shoulders and inflict pain within the first 100 meters. It is also intended to slice into your neck on your way downhill, and slide off going uphill. Your arm is meant to fall asleep as you grasp the gunwhale to keep the canoe in place. At least if you wipe out the canoe will roll off you.

Another great article is http://paddling.net/sameboat/archives/sameboat280.html

Thanks WnC. I'll have to think this through. After a few thousand portages I've been most pleased with the Chosen Valley sling style unpadded yoke pads. I prefer to hit the portage and go, so the idea of taking time to lash paddles seems a bit cumbersome, but slowing down a bit would not be the worst thing in the world, especially on a solo trip that I'm taking to get away the hurry, hurry of life in order to become human again. You're also absolutely right that the kneeling yoke is placed where it is because that's the best place for it.

 

[WoodNCanvas]

Not to disagree with MGC....but Steve, personally I think you're better off not switching the kneeling thwart for a yoke....carved yokes do not normally 'fit' one's shoulders as well as as they can....JMHO....but I think you'd do better with just lashing in paddles....even using a tumpline too....and your canoe is pretty light to start with....
Certainly if you decide to go with a yoke, then replace the yoke in place of the kneeling thwart....