Fancy decks on White canoes

[Benson Gray]

Roger Young and I have been trading messages about dating some small White canoe display models with fancy decks. See http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/5341/ and https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjulia/item/2215-400/ for some examples. My recollection is that all of the full sized White canoes with decks like this as shown at https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/6482/ have serial numbers that date from the 1950s. Can anyone confirm if they have (or have seen) one which doesn't have a serial number or a White Inc. tag and therefore dates from before 1947? Thanks,

Benson

 

[Michael Grace]

Out of curiosity, what is the evidence that RC’s canoe is a White, or that the one from the auction is a White? Neither of the forum thread nor the auction listing included any such evidence. How would I know if I saw one of these that it was actually a White, and not built by/for some other company?

Also, what constitutes “fancy decks”? By “canoe models”, I’m guessing that you mean display canoes but since a full-sized one was mentioned, I have an early E.M. White that has 30” (or so) mahogany decks with kingplanks and comings. It was discussed on the forms and In the journal a long time ago. This type appears in a catalog cut but I have never seen another one in person, so perhaps they didn’t produce very many of them. It’s certainly out of character for what I normally think of in White canoes.

 

[Benson Gray]

I'm sorry for not being more clear and have edited my original message. Yes, I am using 'model' in this case as it applies to small scale canoe models, display canoes, and what auctioneers often call 'salesman samples' rather than the different varieties of full sized canoe 'models' that are commonly listed in a manufacturer's catalog. Small display models are frequently based on a builder's larger canoes. When the deck shape on a scale model is distinctive and similar to the one used on a normal size canoe then the assumption is that it was probably built by (or for) that manufacturer. Some small models have an name on the side so there is less confusion. See https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/s...ls/salesmans-sample-canoe-ca-1900--200904A14/ and the picture below for two examples of White display models with their name on the side. Therefore, if anyone has a canoe of any size with decks that look like http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?attachments/12376/ or https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?attachments/12374/ then I would like to know more about it. Decks with kingplanks are not common in old scale model canoes so a period one built in the style of your White canoe with thirty inch decks might be even more rare than your canoe. Let me know if this doesn't answer your questions. Thanks,

Benson

 

[Michael Grace]

Can anyone confirm if they have (or have seen) one which doesn't have a serial number or a White Inc. tag and therefore dates from before 1947?

Yes ,just brought home a full-size one. This is a beautiful 17' EM White in mahogany trim, with ogee-style deck cutouts. The builder's plate is consistent with the early 1900s (it says "E.M. White & Co.") and there are no serial numbers. This is the first such canoe I ever recall seeing in person.

 

[Benson Gray]

Nice find, this looks consistent with the ones shown in their catalogs from the teens and early 1920s. Does this one have the 'D' shaped rear seat too? Thanks,

Benson

 

[Michael Grace]

That is correct, Benson. This cut appears at least by the 1915 catalog, perhaps a little earlier, and the same image is used through at least 1922. It shows D-shaped rear seat and carry handles fore and aft. This from 1915:

Interestingly, this is shown as part of the description for the open gunwale canoe, first described at least by 1915. The canoe I acquired is open gunwale. The stern seat in this canoe is original and is square, not D-shaped. And there is only one carry handle - in the bow; there is not one in the stern.