Pre fire Chestnut Teddy

samb

LOVES Wooden Canoes
I've started a new thread so I can try to keep everything in an easy to find place. The boat also features here and here if you want to see how it was when I bought it, and a bit of it's history.

The canvas is now off. Held on originally by one steel tack at every 4 inches with a few extras at the ends, for the last number of years / decades, held by the side caps and rust. The previous canvas repairs were made by plastering the gash with some mastic, working it under the canvas, plastering more ‘stuff’ over the top, slapping on a patch and tacking with steel tacks around the edge. Crude but seemingly effective.

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The stems are the old type. No sign of rot, so must have been well looked after. The ribs are as Andre describes. Cant ribs on Chestnuts seem to cause dating problems. Despite its apparent age, my cant ribs are wider and thinner than the rest of the ribs at 2 ¾ x 5/16. They end below the gunnel; they are just fastened to the planks.

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The Chestnut Painter ring is brass with a steel nut. It will have to stay that way because I won’t be able to find a brass one with the correct thread.

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I've decided to replace the decks because they are a bit wormy and so removed and will replace the short end top planks so I can access the screws. The rest of the planking seems in great condition except for one small damaged bit, but I may well find more while stripping the insides.

It seems that all the fastenings to the gunnels are steel / rust, the decks included. There was no way they were coming out so I set to on the deck with a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade. It's a good job I decided on new decks judging by the state of the insides.

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I will need to make seats. Research over the forum suggests that the seat frames of pre-fire boats are shaped differently in some way. They seem to be described as rounded or chamfered, or in one case, I think “more shapely” was the term used. Does anyone have any photos which show this difference? Should the seats have spacers or are they hung directly under the gunnel? I presume seat frames should be maple, the same timber as decks and thwart?

Sam
 
Thanks for posting these stem detail photos. Finally the pre-fire stem construction makes more sense now that I see the original planking in place and it's relationship to the stem 'wide' spot. The rib top chamfer is of interest also as a means to achieve a closed gunwale appearance. I suppose that was a more desirable aesthetic effect in that era.
 
That is a cute little canoe and it's in very good condition, all told.
It will be interesting for other folks to chime in here, but without physically holding those decks in my hands, I would be trying to reuse the original ones. Those old decks have character and also that lovely old decal.
I would first treat to make sure that the worms are no longer present. I would drill and plug the original screw holes and see if it is strong enough to use. To provide structure, I would run the screw plugs through to the other side. While the holes through the decks are present I would soak the decks with Git-Rot or some other similar epoxy product to help reinforce the wood. If they are still not strong enough, I would not give up on it and I would next laminate a piece under the decks to help give it some extra structure.
What is the worst case scenario if the original decks don't end up holding? You would need to replace them. Clearly you are a handy person so why not use what you have and use replacement as the last recourse repair?
Again, it will be interesting if anyone will agree with me. I know lot's of folks who are in the habit of replacing, remaking bits if the original ones are not pristine. On such an old canoe and one that is not likely to see hard service, I lean towards trying to retain originality, even if extra effort, time and expense are required.

I have a piece of 3 inch thick cherry that I bought in 1972. It was stored, moved, stored. Somewhere along the way wood worms made their way into it. About fifteen years ago I treated it to make sure that the worms are both gone and unable to return.
I used one large piece for a fireplace mantel. I have been using bits and pieces from it for canoe repairs ever since. I have made seat frames, decks, thwarts, inside gunwale splices and most recently several pieces for knife handles. I have also made and formed outside stems using some of the less wormy bits.. Granted, a wormy piece of wood may break when you steam bend it but if you are patient, I have found that it can be done.
 
I had fully intended to keep the original decks, from the originality point as well as the fact that buying timber is expensive, the piece I have bought locally (ish) for decks thwart and seats has cost me an eighth of the initial cost of the boat. Time would not have been a problem as I have plenty of that, nor would the extra effort.
While trying various ways of loosening up rusted screws, it became apparent that the decks were in a bad state - far worse than the plentiful holes on the top surface suggested. At one point I dropped a screw drive from about 6", it caught the edge, and a big chunk fell out.
When cutting between the maple deck and spruce rail, I had to make no effort at all to keep the blade in the maple. When removed, I was able to split the deck in two with my hands.
There are very few worm holes apart from those in the decks, and they'll all get treated. I need to have a real close look at the thwart, but may decide to replace it anyway as the bolt holes are split at one side, and then it will match the new decks and seats.
 
As noted, without holding them it's hard to tell.
If as you describe replacement sounds like the only option. It sounds like they are actually dry rotted.
Worm holes and dry rot make for a crumbly and unusable mess.
So it goes.

If you know the thread (Pitch, diameter) on the painter ring someone may be able to offer up a replacement nut. I'm pretty sure that I have some in one of my many cans of squirreled away hardware that I never use but can't bring myself to throw away. I'd have no problem putting one in the mail.
 
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A kind offer. Thanks. I can probably find a tap that will fit fairly easily.
Wood based problem solving I have no trouble with, with metal based problems, I just haven't got the experience and knowledge to get there . . . . although it's obvious now in hindsight!

Sam
 
Just a thought on the decks.
That’s a lot of worm action! WoW!
A compromise between repair and replacement might be if you could cut the thickness of original deck down to, say 1/4”,
You could apply that to a new deck like a veneer, leaving the original part exposed, but with good integrity. Realizing that the original deck is really punky, I’m not sure of the best way to reduce the thickness. Band saw? Planer?
 
Another thought on decks and replacing pieces.
On a canoe that is not historically significant, I have no problem putting on new wood.
I don't know if this canoe is historically significant or not. (to me it's not but...)

I also hate painter rings, (and the corresponding holes in decks) I would use the new deck as an excuse to scrap the existing rings.
 
The first deck to be removed burnt well for a couple of minutes on the fire last night; not much calorific value left in it!. The second will follow. As I'm doing the decks and new seats, I've decided to also put a new thwart in so that they all match. A variety of different colours of wood is not to my taste. I know I can stain new wood to match old, but I won't be doing that.

As to historical significance, from an English perspective, I suppose it is, but it is also a boat to be used as such. My granddads hammer is still the same hammer despite the new handle. If the canoe was going to a museum, then it might, in my opinion, have been worth saving the originals.

Painter rigs will be going back: the original Chestnut one at the bow and I'll make a matching one for the stern.

Anyone got a good photo of the early Chestnut decal I could use please?

Sam
 
I also hate painter rings, (and the corresponding holes in decks) I would use the new deck as an excuse to scrap the existing rings.
I agree. None of my canoes have them and if they did, I removed them. I send them all to Andre. ;)
 
Thanks to Mikes benevolence and philanthropic efforts, out of our collection we have designed a standard deck ring we know he will approve of, capable of hoisting and tearing out decks and misshaping hulls, and galvanized for durablity. For a more slick look, we suggest one that folds flat - we call it the CYR signature model.
 

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If I can't get one of those, I could always drill a hole in the replacement to match the original?

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Wonderful Andre...you are an arteeeeest. Your totally get it. Could you indulge me and size up something for each of these?
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I made up a new old decal for the canoe using a tracing of the ghost of the original to get the exact size
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This photo of an original posted by Graham for the detail and colours

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To make this reproduction to go on the replacement bow deck
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After careful consideration I decided to use the original painter loop rather than one of Andres specials.
The re-launch will be next week when I’ve decided the varnish will be dry enough.

Sam
 
Today on a grey day in the UK, I met with Sam and we went and paddled the maze of waterways which make up Surlingham Broad. Here are a couple of photos of the finished canoe
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Its finished in a lovely colour which I called "manky copper" but there is a posh name for it.

We had a great paddle.

Nick
 
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