Early Old Town Seat Question

Scott W

New Member
Hello all, first post . I am currently restoring a 1910 OT Guide Model (18') . The seats have been taken apart reglued and sanded to bare wood . They appear to be made of mahogany that has gotten quite brown with age . I was hoping to create an old varnished finish look by undercoating with orange shellac (1 1/2 lb cut ) then overcoating with varnish . This trick worked great on the Ash ( or White Oak ) seat backs but when I try it on the seats , they turn an ugly dark color . The other Mahogany parts , leeboard twart , leeboard , rudder have that reddish brown color one associates with Mahogany colored stain . My questions are A , does anyone know what was originally used to coat the seats ( varnish , stain etc ) and B , any ideas on how to give a more pleasing appearance to the old mahogany .
Thanks in advance .
 
Have you tried cleaning/bleaching them? Don't use laundry bleach - use products made for wood. I use Messmers 2-part powered stuff when I can it.
 
Mahogany is commonly filled with a dark grain filler to keep the open Mahogany grain from having white specks when finished. Most woods will go darker when a finish is applied. OT also used a darker then the wood filler on Oak and Ash. The grain filler being darker than the wood is a very standard procedure. Could be that your sailing rig is newer than the canoe and finished at a different time. Standard procedure would be stain al parts to same color, seal with cut shellac, fill with grain filler rubbed in and burnished with burlap then varnish. If you want you could seal again after the filler has dried. Some will even re stain after filling then reseal before varnishing.
 
Scott - If your Guide is AA-grade, it should have mahogany trim (seat frames, thwarts, inwales and outwales, and decks). You can find out by posting your serial number on these forums, which should turn up your original Old Town build record. It sounds like your seat frames just need a good cleaning/bleaching. As Howie suggested, use a good 2-part cleaner and bleach process. Good ones can be found in small quantities at marine shops like West Marine. Some instructions say not to use on mahogany, but in my experience they work great on mahogany. I believe the reason they say this is that these solutions will remove old filler stain.

As for filler stains, I personally avoid them at all costs (no offense intended, Jan... just my preference). To my eye, filler stains simply muddy up what would otherwise be beautiful wood, but this material is the norm in much of the runabout world. If you strip the old finish, clean and bleach according to package instructions, and then sand and finish with a good marine varnish, you'll likely be extremely pleased with your results (but like Howie said, don't use household bleach - very different!). Old mahogany treated this way has a spectacularly beautiful patina that simply cannot be matched by any stain. As for grain filling, if you wish to talk more about that, there are good answers there too that don't involve muddy fillers.

See attachments for one of many examples of mahogany I've treated this way, all with excellent results. First image shows a deck that has been stripped, cleaned and bleached. Originally the mahogany was very dark and ugly. Second image shows the same deck along with the original trim (caps) with a number of coats of varnish. No stain of any kind, only varnish.

Michael
 

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Scott,

I agree with Michael above plus possibility treating the wood with some extra coats of tung oil before if using tung oil varnish. Many times the oils in the varnish absorb quickly and repeated coats are needed on the old dry wood especially after bleaching. Some people like to seal their canoe first but I like to put some oils back in the wood and would rather not seal the canoe before a finish is applied. As we know our canoes creek and moan enough when moved and being as old as they are I want to put some oils back in it.

Zack
 
Thanks for your responses and collective knowledge ! Jan , you are correct about the sailing seats coming from a later boat , they were taken off a 1926 OT. Michael , yes , it is AA grade and I agree with you about the patina of varnished old wood , stains and fillers are to be avoided ( beautiful boat BTW ) . Zack , great idea about adding the Tung oil to the wood first , it's got to be pretty dry after 90 years ! Thanks again , you have given me much to consider , a plan is forming . Bleach , clean , sand , oil , varnish , varnish , varnish .
 
Fillers muddy up if you do not know how to use them. Look at the back of any 100 year old Martin Guitar made of Brazilian Rosewood and tell me it is muddy.
 
Jan , I don't disagree with you about the proper use of pore fillers ( I only had a 70 year old Martin to check , but you are correct , not muddy ) . Still haven't decided whether to match the finish of the seat to that of the sailing components ( muddy ) or to do a nice varnish job . Do you know what was done originally at the Factory ?
 
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