Dacron neophyte asking for advice

MGC

MGC

Scrapmaker
I've finally decided to give a Dacron cover a try. I've been reading about it for years and my curiosity has finally won out. I know it will amplify the imperfections on the old hull I plan to put it on. I did a better job of faring than I normally do with that in mind, but I know it won't cover things up like canvas.
I have been back and forth on this site and read just about everything that has been written. It's a bit daunting to realize that many people who exclusively used Dacron have since given up on it. And then there's the whole trail of Cecofil, EkoFil to follow. I read that Sherlastic elastomeric paint may be used in place of Ekofil.
Howie tells me he used a Kilz product on his recent Dacron covers. I read about using primers and spackles. Frankly, I am lost.
Could someone suggest how I proceed? Do I need to fill and with what? Then what? I have a couple cans of nice Epifanes paint I want to use on this canoe. What steps do I need to take to get ready to apply it.
Thanks in advance.
Mike
 
Mike-
I used Dacron on my canoe last summer and posted a writeup of my results -- which you have probably seen!
https://forums.wcha.org/threads/anybody-ever-use-non-standard-canvas-thicknesses.19113/post-102428
I used Kilz 2 as filler and liked it. My only problem was I did 3 coats and should have done 4, since you can still see a hint of fabric weave in places. There was really no excuse, as I found the coats got easier and used a lot less paint on each successive coat.
As for those giving up on Dacron, that would not include me -- I was happy with the result.
 
I will offer a disclaimer: The FDA has not evaluated the above (below) claims for effectiveness and the claims presented are intended for entertainment only. There....
So, I did a blended fabric recently and it was fine. I stapled it on with good result. I've done heavy weight dacron with no issues. No weight savings tho. The blend did save weight. I readjust for large puckers. For smaller puckers I spritz with water and touch it with the iron for a few seconds with good results. I use latex filler and was recommended to me by Brian Baker. I also mix in lightweight latex spackle in with the filler 50/50 for the last coat or two. I use an auto body plastic squeegee. Both products are listed as exterior/interior. I then prime and paint with enamel. That's what has worked best for me. I think that no matter what material you use, be it polyester or cotton canvas, the filler I use will work. I did use kilz once and it seemed fine. I made sure it was exterior and of course had the anti microbials. I prefer Kirby gray primer. Whatever you do, write it down so you can remember. Your mileage may vary. Porch paint has been used in some older jobs, but not be me. Straight varnish epifanes was used once that I know of and it worked well. experimentation always lead to more learning.

Dave
 
I would like the FDA to investigate why my Weihenstephaner I had last night was not more carbonated.
Thanks Dave and Worth....both of you have previously posted and so I appreciate the follow-up.
Dave, what sort of spackle are you mixing in? Dry, premixed.. Are you using tape/adhesive in addition to the staples?
Worth, are you running tape along the stems or on each side on the planking?

I'm not going to lose sleep if this is not perfect. Anything will be better than the puckers I had when I canvased this one the first time. I'm still annoyed by that and feel like I am getting even with it by coming back with Dacron. That, and with the current temperatures, canvas is not an option for me. I can't fill inside my house and my garage is too cold for stretching.
 
I don't use tape. Or glue. Just staple. I use light weight exterior spackle from Sherwin Williams. It's the stuff from the plastic can. I mix it with the filler which is also exterior latex. The mixture is thicker that way and helps to fill the weave .
 
Mike, here is what I did with the stems. I ran Heat Bond tape on the front of the stem and also on both sides. After using the iron on each side to hold things in place, I cut the fabric to size, allowing enough to wrap around the stems. Then I folded one side onto the stem and ironed it down, added another layer of tape, then ironed down the second side on top of the first, on the front of the stem. And then the stem doublers on top of that.
 
I think outside stems would be the more elegant solution.
I used stem doublers on my canoe because I had them on fiberglass and Kevlar canoes and they seemed to help. Of course in the past I used to just run canoes and kayaks up onto the beach but I broke that bad habit. Actually, it was broken for me: I test paddled some Hornbeck ultralight canoes on the pond behind their shop, and they insisted the canoe be parallel to the shore and not touching the bottom when I stepped in! Great lesson.
 
I've only done one canoe with dacron so this comes from very little experience. Instead of tape, I ran a bead of hot melt glue on the stem for the first side of fabric, then melted that into the fabric with my iron. Another bead of hot melt on top of the first layer of fabric and another layer of fabric melted into the stem with the iron. It was easy.
Someone with rather more experience that I have suggested using ballistic nylon instead of dacron, but I couldn't find any to buy. Apparently the shrinkage characteristics are the same, the weight is similar and the nylon is stronger.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the hot glue. I chose to use the tape thinking that it would be more uniform and less of a mess to use.
I'm not keen on using the nylon. I have the Dacron ready to go.
 
rbudge said:
. . . . suggested using ballistic nylon instead of dacron, but I couldn't find any to buy. Apparently the shrinkage characteristics are the same, the weight is similar and the nylon is stronger.
Click to expand...
Can ballistic nylon be painted or is it self coloured?

Sam
 
The BN applications in place of canvas that I am familiar with are done using an epoxy coating. The epoxy provides color. The downside (other than the known issues with sag) are that the epoxy and the nylon tend to bond to the planking. There has been a significant amount of experimentation with a way to prevent this.
The poly approach is far more reversable if or when a traditional canvas is eventually desired.
 
Mike, I would encourage you to document and share your dacron process with us all. I have a 16' canoe in queue which is damn heavy with its existing canvas and paint. Since the hull appears to be undamaged and fair, it may be a good candidate to explore the weight savings of dacron.
 
patrick corry said:
Mike, I would encourage you to document and share your dacron process with us all. I have a 16' canoe in queue which is damn heavy with its existing canvas and paint. Since the hull appears to be undamaged and fair, it may be a good candidate to explore the weight savings of dacron.
Click to expand...
I tend to take pictures as I work although I and not planned to on this job. We'll see.
There is quite a bit of available documentation, some of it with very good images accompanying that I have been referring to. The Upper Chesy Assembly instructions are pretty good.
This post has been an attempt to sort out some details that were a bit unclear to me. What I have learned is that there are some generally consistent details and a whole lot of variability. For example, hot glue used along the rails and stems, heat and bond tape used along the rails and stems, no glue, staples used.... Stem heat and bond tape on the stem, stem heat and bond tape along the planking following the stem profile etc. I doubt doing one of these with Dacron is going to provide a credible reference for others....
After seeing a few McKenzie boats, I would have loved to have seen his process.
 
MGC said:
The Upper Chesy Assembly instructions are pretty good.
Click to expand...
Yes, pretty good, but not perfect. I found some problems, which I reported at the link in comment #2 above. In particular, if you use the 8.4 ounce fabric from GA Boats, and you apply to a wooden hull (as opposed to skin on frame), you will need much more heat than the instructions tell you. That's because the Upper Chessy instructions are based on those from GA Boats, which were originally written for a lighter fabric applied to a skin on frame boat.
And that thing about cutting the stem doublers on a bias using pinking shears is just nuts. When you cut fabric on the bias, there is no tendency for strands to fall out, and thus no need for pinking shears. They are good for other cuts though.
 
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Circling back to Patrick, I just applied the Heat Bond tape along the shear line, but not before frustrating myself with a trip to Lowes to see if they have stainless JT21 staples.... Not being a staple user (except for targets on the range and an occasional sheet of plastic on the wood box) I was going to use them as had been previously suggested. Nope, not that size. If I want to use staples I need to buy yet another stapler and guess what, I am not going to. To convince myself I was not going down a rat hole I applied some tape to a scrap of old planking and the attached a small piece of Dacron. It was holding extremely well so I decided to give it a go. I figure I can always go back a shoot a few staples in if they turn out to be necessary. My old Swix base iron seems to be up to the job. I'm not going to tell my wife I had the kitchen thermometer down in the cellar figuring out how hot it is.
Here are my first impressions of where this is headed. Nothing I do is going to be particularly worth reporting or recording. If you track down older posts on this forum about this, the summary that Worth offered and the comments from Howie and so many others going back over 10 years capture just about anything that could be said. I might run into a few things unique to my canoe, or the material I have chosen to use, but this appears to be a fairly well covered process. Looking back, I am chuckling about the suggestions to use epoxies and numerous other jabs. I am very late to this game.
 
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