Cleaning?

[Voyager]

I recently acquired a very special (to me) wood canvas canoe that has been stored in a barn for many years. It's from a boy scout camp and the first canoe I ever paddled 50 yrs ago. I want to keep it in its original and current state. Just wondering what's the suggested way to clean up the dirt and dust from inside and outside without harming it?
Thanks!

 

[Greg Nolan]

close-up pictures detailing the current condition of the paint and varnish would be very useful. Further, it seems unlikely (though it is possible) that a canoe that is at least 50 years old, and used in a scout camp, still has "original" paint, canvas, or varnish.

Are you planning to use the canoe -- or just display it?

 

[Voyager]

Thanks Greg. My inital plans were to display it although I am very tempted to paddle it. I'm not sure how bad it will leak and need to look more closely at the hull. I have a picture from scout camp in 1968 showing this boat and it's handpainted number. I'm pretty sure it has not been recanvased since then although it looks like some poor repairs were done on the starboard side of the stern. Back in 1968 they were transitioning into aluminum canoes and it's likely they retired this wood canvas ones shortly after. It's my understanding that this canoe was part of a collection of boy scout memorabilia from a man who was very active in scouting and this canoe has been in his barn for many years. He died recently and it was acquired at an estate sale and I purchased it from that individual. You can see the Camp Kingsley emblem and hand painted number still on the boat. My guess is that the boat was made in the 50's or earlier as the scout camp was established in the 50's. I will try to attach a few photos. Thanks again.

 

[MGC]

Dish soap and water will do the trick..... use a soft brush and keep the hose running.
I'd be inclined to give it a coat or two of varnish even if the plan is to display it. Use a satin finish for your last coat to knock down the shine....
If you want to paddle it you can quickly find out if the paint and canvas are "OK"..

 

[Greg Nolan]

Quite a nice canoe -- and it does seem that the paint and canvas, if not actually original, are 50 years or more old.

I agree with the advice above -- dish detergent, gentle brushing and thorough rinse, and a good marine varnish on the interior for UV protection. The varnish on the gunwales and decks seems pretty well gone -- I think I would lightly sand them before varnishing them, not necessarily to get rid of all weathered wood, but to get rid of the worst discoloration. I would apply only one or two coats, and I also would use a satin varnish for the final coat, though others would use gloss -- a matter of personal taste. That should leave the canoe in good shape for display for a long time.

However, paint and canvas that are 50 years old or even older (the camp seems to have been established in 1921 - http://www.griesmyer.com/Pages/camp_kingsley.aspx ), will not likely stand up to much use, though the canoe may be basically watertight. The paint is clearly in poor shape, and the paint and the underlying filler have probably lost most of the flexibility they originally would have had. If you do use it, I would do no more than a bit of easy paddling on protected water, taking care go easy on the paint and canvas as the boat is launched and landed. Bring a sponge and a bailer. I expect the canoe will be ok with a bit of easy use.

Do you know who made the canoe? Your pictures don’t give a clear view of the decks, but it seems as though it may be an Old Town. If so, there should be a serial number stamped into the floor ends of both stems. If an Old Town, we can give you some information about the canoe -- model, when made, etc., if you post the number here.

Greg

 

[Voyager]

Thank you for the great information. Attached are more photos I took today. I have not cleaned or done anything to the boat yet. You can see the condition of the paint and area's that are down to the fabric. The decks have a metal band underneath but no information on the maker. There is a number on one stem, it appears to be CX3551. If i do paddle it, it would only be for a few moments to just experience being in this boat again. After that I will retire for display. You can see by the pics there are runs where it appears that the boat had been varnished . Also the repairs looks like some kind of putty used. There are numerous screws used in the construction, I don't know if that's common.

 

[pklonowski]

There's no stem band, and no tacks on the stem... Are you sure it's still canvas, and hasn't been fiberglassed?

 

[Greg Nolan]

Your photo DSCN225 sure looks like fiberglass, not canvas. After washing, a good waxing would probably improve the appearance of the fiberglassed hull considerably. If you are only going to display the canoe (other than a short nostalgia paddle), waxing the wood after washing, rather than revarnishing, may be sufficient.

I am not familiar with that serial number format -- someone else may be along to help on that score.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Thompson Ranger
strap under deck and from Dan's site.
and the clipped corners on the rib ends.

Dan

 

[Voyager]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I am a lifelong paddler but sad to say not experienced with the traditional wood/canvas canoes other than to just admire their beauty and workmanship. This boat was represented to me as wood/canvas and given the age and wood I assumed that to be the case not knowing that people actually put fiberglass on some of these. I agree that it most certainly has been glassed, likely many years ago. Another photo attached shows the material does not go under the outwales but right up on top of the botton edge.
The suggestion that it's a Thompson also appears accurate but the model may be the Indian. I took the measurements 16 x 33 x 12 1/2 and if the information on this link is correct than it may have been made between 1907 and 1927.
http://dragonflycanoe.com/wood-canoe-identification-guide/thompson-brothers/
As Greg found the scout camp was founded in 1921 I'm guessing that this canoe may have been in their early fleet and later fiberglassed to get more years of use out of it. The fiberglass does not look to be a very professional job, maybe was part of a scout project? Now I'm really curious to learn more about the history of Camp Kingsley and their canoes, I will reach out to the local scout council. I have a picture of this canoe on the camp waterfront from 1968 when I was twelve years old and it shows the number 15 clearly, so I'm guessing the fiberglass was done years prior. None the less, it's very surreal to have the first canoe I ever paddled that started my lifelong passion for canoeing and wilderness tripping.
I will likely varnish the rails as they are very rough and dry and will likely absorb moisture. I only have experience with two spar varnishes, Helmsman and McCloskeys Man-O-War. I did not like the Helmsman and got much better results with McCloskeys.

Ken

 

[Greg Nolan]

We are the Wooden Canoe HERITAGE Association -- we are not just about using and restoring old canoes -- we are also about how canoes have been part of our lives and our culture. It is great to see someone finding and preserving a canoe that has been part of their their early life and a part of scouting, which has been a significant part of the lives of many of us.

Some information about the camp is at
http://www.griesmyer.com/Pages/camp_kingsley.aspx
http://tealcat.nyheritage.org/collections/mohawk-valley-boy-scouts-collection
http://romesentinel.com/sevenday/co...ingsley-family/QBqpbq!peC7@iaWiKwgWbIdi@w5HA/
https://cdn.loc.gov/master/pnp/habshaer/ny/ny0500/ny0593/data/ny0593data.pdf

There are a lot of issues around fiberglassing a wood/canvas canoe --whether to do it, how to do it, and how and whether to undo it. None of those arise here -- the 'glassing has already been done, apparently a long time ago, and there seems to be no reason to undo it -- to the contrary, it is part of the history of this canoe. And given the durability of fiberglass, it's probably useful that it has been done -- the canoe is probably much less delicate than if it were covered by 50 year old canvas, and will therefore be easier to keep and display.

If the area in the photo above showing resin missing and the fiberglass exposed is below the waterline, I would temporarily cover it (and any similar areas) with waterproof tape when you take the canoe out for a spin.

If the canoe is to be displayed indoors, the varnish used is less important than if it were to be kept out of doors in the sunlight. I would think McCloskey's Man-O-War would be quite satisfactory for indoor display. There are marine varnishes that reputedly provide more UV protection than either Helmsman or Man-O-War, but they are considerably more expensive and from what I hear, probably harder to work with. Good luck with your project.

Greg

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Ok, you made me go look at my chart.

That's probably not an old canoe, and it doesn't look like an old canoe. The construction looks more like a later T, with the thick ribs and larger rails.

That end shape is the low Guide style end, which T only offered a few times in their history. (And never offered on the Indian.)

The Ranger had it from 1949 to 1953, and again in 1956. This is the most likely.
T also offered a short lived "Hunter, Trapper, Guide" in 1912 and 1913. Just cause this is a 2 year offering makes this unlikely.

The older T's, roughly prior to 1921 or so, all had the old style, high, rounded, pointed end shape, typical of the very early canoes.

T didn't offer canoes after 1958.

Dan

 

[Voyager]

Thanks everyone for all the great information and education! I will continue to pursue the history of this canoe and share any noteworthy information I find. You've all given me a great start!
As a side, I tried to join via your website and although I'm shown as "logged on" in the forum I can't seem to get my order through. I will call the phone number this week and do it manually.
Thanks again!

Ken

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Ken,

That is a nice canoe and in nice condition. There should be no problem paddling it as long as you want to.
Here is a catalog image of the 1st "Guide" shaped Ranger, 1949.

Dan

 

[Voyager]

Hi Dan,
My have things changed! A "lightweight" 16' canoe at a mere 65#'s.
I doubled checked the width and still coming up with 33" maximum. Maybe they made changes in some years to the Ranger?
Wonder if they have any of those $3.50 paddles left?

Ken