Canvas Repair

[Norm Hein]

I wouldn't even tell anyone I did this but I am up against the clock to get this canoe canvased. As I was cutting the canvas to the right length I also cut through the canvas that was suppose to cover the canoe. Its about a 3 inch gash that runs from side to side.
I am 99.9% sure I know the answer to this BUT is there anyway to repair it? It's not stretched over the canoe, I was cutting it down to a manageable length to get it in the clamps.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Where is the cut?
What is the canoe for/who? What length?
I suspect it could be "repaired", maybe stitched together, but would you be happy with a job like that on a fresh rebuild?

 

[Norm Hein]

The cut is about 5'6" from the stem on a 15 footer and is about 9" off center. It will be mine and it is a geterdone kind of a build. This canoe was painted, fiber glassed, stained at least twice, its been a real pain. I have been trying to go to Sylvania Wilderness area for the last 3 years and it looked like it was finally going to happen and I wanted to take this canoe, so... I don't care if it looks good. I want a solid canoe. That's all I'm after now. So do you think sewing will hold up to the stretch?

 

[Norm Hein]

This is my first canvasing, Of coarse

 

[Norm Hein]

I am having some success with CA glue. I first tried it with a patch. I had to really work at it to remove the patch but it did come off but what I noticed is that the cut canvas (test piece) has holding together. So this morning I am trying another test. One with glue first and one with activator first. I'm going to give it a couple hrs then put another layer. Fingers crossed.

 

[Gil Cramer]

I would try to glue on a patch on the outside of the canvas. My first choice of glue is Blue River aircraft glue. My second choice would be WEST system G-flex. I would also be careful when stretching the canvas, probably canvas by hand stretching. After canvassing and filling, using polyester auto body filler to fair in the patch.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

I'd follow Gil's suggestions, though I'd still try to add some sowing under the patch if I were trying to repair it.

I might be in for a surprise but what would a new piece of canvas cost?
Doesn't seem like saving a few dollars is worth it considering the time put into repairing the canoe and how long the canvas will be on the canoe.

 

[Norm Hein]

All of these suggestions are great. It’s not the cost of new canvas. It’s more of the cost of time. I’ll leave in four weeks so if I give up a week to get the canvas, I won’t have time to fill it and paint it. And if it were a customers canoe, I definitely wouldn’t do it this way, but being that it’s my own and it’s kind of rough anyway, I’m good with patching it

 

[dtdcanoes]

NORM, My 2 cents If your are going that way with the canvas finishing ( or lack of ), I can see your logic. But I would consider adding in a sew job, maybe this way. I would use some say 14 lb braid fishing line which you can barely cut and it is a material that will not stretch, abrade or be seen
later. I am assuming I understand that the cut is perpendicular to the length . I would run the stitch lines 1 inch long on both sides of the slit and 1/4" max along the cut the whole length, pulling each just to go for a snug Of course you would weave the thread in and out as you go and at the lines end just step over and start the next line back. It would help to close and hold the cut together with T pins before you start. I would be inclined to use some G-Flex for say 3/8" over the cut and make sure it has soaked to the other side. And why not add a simple surgical stitch at the cut's end for insurance. Put it in not tightened and do so after you soak up the cut line with G-Flex. SNIP AND PAINT AND TRAVEL. There are some really thick primer paints you may want to consider as a short term filler and than paint or even shellac, maybe....a very quick do and tough.
Happy tripping....Dave

 

[Norm Hein]

Wow that’s a lot for only 2 cents Good advice Dave I appreciate it.

 

[MGC]

My two cents....after working on canoes for well over 50 years, it's been my experience that however it got done is the way it's going to stay, so get it right the first time. There will always be another canoe/boat that needs your time. Except to slap on some fresh varnish or paint, going back to an old job doesn't often happen.
I'd take the extra few days and get a fresh canvas. You'll save yourself time and aggravation and you won't spend the next 10 years wishing the canvas didn't have a big patch in it.

 

[Andre Cloutier]

What Mike said. In the time this thread has been alive, you would have a new canvas on and at least one coat of filler, with no compromises. Myself i would epoxy fill it and be paddling in a week, but thats a whole new can of worms. cheers.

 

[MGC]

The wicked firestarter is not to be trifled with.
Since the forum has some fresh faces, perhaps you could share some tips about how to get that into the water in a week.
Not everyone is familiar with that approach and most of us old hacks are still pushing the idea that you need to fill and wait for the gestation period of a swamp rabbit before you can proceed with paint.

 

[toolbox]

Hello Norm,
Had a similar mishap on my first recanvas. Found a product "Liquid Invisible Stitch" by Invisible Repair Products Akron, OH. Cut a patch and feathered edge. Ninety percent of canvas was on the hull when I screwed up. Set up a temp work surface next to hull which I covered in wax paper. Treated patch with LIS and aligned edges. Then clamped with a strip of steel. pics are not in order but I think you will get the idea.

 

[Norm Hein]

I thank all of you for the ideas and discussion. I ran a number of tests on my CA glue fix and I could not get it to come apart. I put one end in a vice and used canvas pliers on the other and stretched it like you would in tacking the canvas to the ribs and then some. So I went with it. I used the same method as Rollin does in his video to canvas it and everything held up just fine. Time will tell I guess.

By the way, hats off to you restorers out there. Your attention to detail and getting the job done correctly is to say the least, impressive.
So I have learned two thing from this build so far. 1-watch where the tip of you knife is around canvas. 2- Restoration is probably not for me. I do want to try a complete new build though.

The canvas seems very tight and wrinkle free except for this spot. I think I can work it out though.

I'll let you know how it goes!
Thanks again!

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

For me, this rings way too close to the experience I had in 1972 with my brand new 16' custom keelless Old Town Guide. After owning the canoe for about six months a split about 5" long opened up in the canvas, 2/3 of the way aft on one side and just below the gunwale. Upon careful examination I discovered a patch of Dacron behind the split or cut which had been glued on, but which had let go due to the fact that dissimilar materials (as well as doubled-up similar materials and often also glue-saturated materials) don't expand and contract the same way that a single layer of undamaged material will. Eventually something is likely to give way and the split can re-open.

Apparently, they used Dacron so that the thickness of the patch wouldn't make a visible lump under the canvas. Filler can initially hide the flaw but doesn't have much actual strength in that capacity. The folks at Old Town knew damned well that they were sending out a damaged canoe at full retail price but thought they could get away with it. When that failed, they offered to recanvas the boat for free - as long as I paid better than $100 in 1972 money shipping each way from Illinois to Main and back. I pretty much told them where they could stick it and proceeded to strip the bad canvas off and repair it myself. Good luck with it Norm. Hopefully your patch will hold up better then Old Town's did.

 

[Norm Hein]

Hey Tod,
No doubt in my mind I am taking a chance but I'm feeling good about it (until it fails anyway). I'll have my Duct Tape at the ready.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I don't care if it looks good. I want a solid canoe. That's all I'm after now. So do you think sewing will hold up to the stretch?

From the perspective of a longtime canoeist who is not a perfectionist canoe maker, restorer or collector—but a simple user of canoes as simple tools for simple pleasures—your patch and sew philosophy makes sense to me, as long as it's tested for strength, which you seem to have done.

I realize there are some differences between the use of canvas on canoe hulls versus use as boat sails, but it would seem that sailors since the most ancient civilizations have used woven plant fibers for sails, and I suspect they all used sewed patches for inevitable small tears rather than wholly replacing entire sails. There are many current articles and YouTube videos about how to repair tears and sew patches on sails.

Many of my non-wood canoes have a variety of hull repairs: arc-welded Royalex tears, G-flexed repairs, fiberglass patches, micro-balloon fills, gel coat repairs, duct tape. We used to bash aluminum canoes back into shape with big rocks. These canoes will never go to a museum, but they've all functioned just fine after the repairs. If functional use is your goal, and if you don't care whether someone notices a repaired three-inch canvas gash upon close inspection, and if you don't want to spend the time or money on a new canvas, then go for it. You'll be in the company of hundreds of thousands of paddlers who have various blemishes or imperfections on their boat hulls.

Good luck with your project and planned trip.

 

[MGC]

I'm not sure there is a hard distinction between a restorers/builders/collector's attention to detail and a "paddlers fix",.
Most of us who really use these wood and canvas canoes have repaired a torn canvas. It's a standard repair that is done to hold off the inevitable and eventual replacement of the canvas. A properly done patch can last literally as long as the rest of the canvas. We have also fixed gouges in the filler, patched cracked ribs or hole punched planking. And we all (at least I do) carry a roll of duct tape along on our trips.

The distinction here is that this was a fresh uninstalled canvas, not one that was not damaged in service. The repair is not the same as one done on an already canvased and filled hull. The patch on a finished hull is one that (done properly) can be done with a degree of certainty. This patch of an unstretched canvas has an element of moderate risk and uncertainty and hence the question.
It looks like Norm has successfully patched the canvas. Hopefully it holds.
Obviously, there is some cosmetic compromise, but the intent is to make the boat serviceable so that is a consideration that Norm has already rationalized. It actually looks pretty good.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

The distinction here is that this was a fresh uninstalled canvas, not one that was not damaged in service.

I understand that, which is what prompted me to think of the analogy to a sail. Sails are stretched and stressed each time they are used, they develop tears, and a there are well-known methods of repairing those tears with patches and sewing.

Aside from sails, it's just common experience that one can sew patches on clothing or other fabrics that will be stronger than the fabric on which they are sewn. It depends upon how one does it. Of course, one may not like the cosmetic look of a patch. In that case, buying a new jacket or pair of pants, if affordable, may on balance be preferable.