Canvas filler question

[ddewees]

I'm not sure whether this is the right forum for this historical question, but... I just noticed that an Old Town build record Ric A posted for me recently listed the dates for "1st filled" and "2nd filled", with the dates a month apart. I had never thought about this before, but went back and looked at a couple of other examples, and these lines appear on the standard build record form at least from the 19 teens through the 50's (maybe longer). Was it once usual practice to apply more than one coat of filler, with a wait for the first coat to cure before the second was put on? The two examples I looked at showed 2 coats in 1917, but only the one in 1950. Was this any early practice that was later abandoned, and why?
Don in Vermont

 

[Ric Altfather]

Hi Don,

I will try to answer your question and I'm sure others will have additional information.

What I have noticed with the build records is that from the mid - late 1940's forward, OT was not as thorough in completing the entire build record. Instead of listing the 1st fill and 2nd fill they just say filled...lumber choices are not listed...blank spaces where they once had an entry.

As far as the fill process, I believe that all builders have to apply at least two coats to fill the weave...one just won't do and its not a process you can speed up, if you want a good finish. Everyone has a different method but in general, the first coat is put on with a stiff bristle brush followed by a rubbed in coat by hand. As far as the wait time between coats, I think that may have been an OT production process, scheduling, etc. The first coat does not have to be cured before you rub in the 2nd...but the full cure can take 3 months before the finish can be applied.

Hope this helps and I hope I got it right!

Ric

 

[ddewees]

Its the wait between coats

Thanks Ric. I understand the need for more than one coat of filler, but have always applied all that seemed to be needed (2 or three rounds) all in one session, then set the boat aside until the filler was hard, then painted. My question had to do with why Old Town might have waited for the initial coat of filler to cure before the second was applied, which I had not heard of before. As you suggest, maybe there was some production efficiency in doing it this way, with two thin coats requiring less total curing time than one thick coat.

The question has come up in these forums occassionally about applying filler to already-filled canvas as a repair technique, and some have suggested there might not be good enough adhesion between layers of filler. That's what got me wondering about the wisdom of letting the initial coat dry before applying a second.

Just trying to learn my craft!

Don

 

[Blue Viking]

filler

I have found that on the trhee...OT's ...that I am working on that there seems to be just a very thin filler applied to the old canvases...This probably was the result of doing a 2 fill process....These ones my friend and I are restoring are a 49, 56, and 45 (years of manufacture) Also doing an older Chestnut and their canvas is thin on filler also.
I have done the three fill system...1-rub in with a brush,2-rub in with a canvas mitt, and 3- rub smooth with a latex glove...this system gives a very smooth surface and the system is like trowelling in cement and then finishing it with a smooth finish coat...Luv to see "inquiring minds " on here...its how I learn!

 

[Benson Gray]

Was it once usual practice to apply more than one coat of filler, with a wait for the first coat to cure before the second was put on? The two examples I looked at showed 2 coats in 1917, but only the one in 1950. Was this any early practice that was later abandoned, and why?

I can't find anyone who can confirm what was done in 1917 but it appears that the standard practice at Old Town was to put untreated canvas on, singe it with a torch to remove any loose ends, apply the first coat of filler, let it dry for a few weeks, singe it again with a torch to get any remaining loose ends, apply the second coat of filler, and let it dry for a few months.

The record keeping became considerably less detailed over the years as Ric mentioned so I expect that this filling technique didn't change much over the years even though less was recorded on each build record.

Benson

 

[Dan Miller]

Which begs the question of why the current Conventional Wisdom is to apply all of your filler in one sitting, and that applying a second coat after the first has cured for any length of time is not a good thing....

 

[jwswanboats]

Filler order of operations

Dan,
I am currently working on an Otca ( among other things) and I have been experimenting with some different techniques. A tree had fallen on it and it was all busted up amidships. Last winter i ordered a video on peapods of the maine coast-which is something that would have been handy before i built the peapod at the UW. Anyway, I tried prebending my ribs to two shapes and then installing them and tweaking each one out as needed (as per how Alton Whitmore built his peapods, it worked with limited success for me, inside bending straps would have been a wiser course..live and learn). The other thing i wanted to try was a two phase filling job. The book on Joe Seliga has him describing going to a two stage filling process, he claimed it reduced sanding time chasing down the final finsh. I am all for sanding time reduction, so i thought i might give it a shot. any tips or sage words of advice out there?
Josh

 

[Ric Altfather]

Wait between coats?

I inquired from Old Town about this practice and here is their response..."The wait time between first canvas fill and second canvas fill would be caused by production volume or waiting on supplies".
Ric

 

[Benson Gray]

The pictures below provide an interesting postscript to this discussion by showing where Old Town stored canoes to let the filler dry when all of their other storage locations were full.

Benson