Building times

Benson Gray

Canoe History Enthusiast
Staff member
I traded some messages with Roger Young recently about the elapsed build time indicated on some of the Old Town records. The “Half Built” date is when it was taken off the form and had the serial number stamped on the stems. It probably took at least a few days to get the ribs bent and planking installed but this is a good proxy for when the canoe was started. The shipping date is a hard stop for when the canoe was finished. They estimated about 40 man hours to build a typical wooden canoe so the rest of the time was drying. However some records show many years between these dates and others were done in less than a month. I’m always surprised at how little time elapsed between painting / varnishing and shipping in many cases. You can understand why finish problems were among the most frequent reasons for a canoe would be returned. Two extreme cases are shown at https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?attachments/44336/ with an elapsed 15 days for a 20 foot long canoe with sponsons and https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?attachments/2501/ that took over five years for a 12 foot long square stern.

Benson
 
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The 20' Guide at https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?attachments/44336/ is amazing. It seems like it must have been a rush order, but even as a rush it's hard to understand the timeframe. The hull was built May 5th and 6th, and varnished the same day it was completed. It was canvassed and filled the next day, and a second coat of filler applied 5 days later. Only 4 days after that, the hull was painted. And only 4 days after painting, the canoe was shipped out. Assuming they were using what we think of as traditional filler, it's hard to imagine that the hull was ready for paint so soon. The varnishing schedule doesn't seem so surprising given that these production canoes didn't get the high-end varnish jobs we often do today, but the filler? Hmmm...

As for those canoes that sat for years before being shipped - I've always assumed that they got buried behind/under other stored stock, and only pulled out when really needed or during a clear-out. What do you think, Benson?
 
I was puzzled by this. I attach the build sheet for my 1911 Old Town AA Grade CR. You can see that it was 2nd filled in June 1911 but not finished and varnished until the May of the following year. Perhaps it was left longer for the filler to harden.
Nick
D3110841-0208-49FA-B3AA-E6D091F4CF8E.jpeg
 
Asa Gallupe was a canoe builder as shown at http://wcha.org/catalogs/maine-list.htm on the list of Maine builders. Old Town may have been doing him a favor to satisfy a customer in a hurry with the understanding that Asa would take care of any finish issues related to improperly cured filler or varnish.

Old Town canoes were frequently stacked floor to ceiling and wall to wall in large storage areas while the filler cured. This was a classic first in, last out situation so it was not unusual that a low volume model (like a 12 foot square stern or a Charles River with double mahogany gunwales) would occasionally get buried for a very long time.

Two other rush build records are attached below for your amusement. These do not appear to have been sent to canoe builders.

Benson



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I have not analyzed Joe's data, (too much work) but for about 30 years he made between 8 and 12 canoes per year, and taking 10 as an average, that would be just over 5 weeks start to finish (and often out the door). And for most of these, this would be 1 guy working in his garage.
 
I'm curious about the "2nd Filled" Process. What does this mean? Did they apply more filler days later?
 
I found it interesting in the above build records that in one case 5 days elapsed before the 2nd fill and three months in another. Unlike our current technique of all coats the same day.
 
Yes, the philosophy has changed. The filler is different too so that may account for some of the change.

Benson
 
Yes, Old Town did apply more filler days, weeks or even months later back in earlier days, contrary to the general wisdom of applying traditional filler today - multiple coats in close succession, for example on the same day.

I did a quick assessment of some serial numbers using ones posted on the forums, and it appears that there was an abrupt change from this practice to a new method of applying filler only on a single day (if the build record notations are accurate). Records showing filler application dates from very early on and through the summer of 1949 consistently show filler applied on two different days:

28806 1913.gif 117406 early 1936.gif 149288 Aug 1947.jpeg151066 Sept 1948.gif152882 June 1949.jpeg

But starting with records showing filler applied in late 1949 and later show it being applied only on a single day:

153395 Oct 1949.jpeg153478 Nov 1949.jpeg154453 1950.jpeg 159017 1953.jpeg 167897 1958.gif

Why the apparent abrupt change in late 1949? Different filler formula? Trying to correct a problem? Expediency (and so cost savings)?

Michael
 
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Why the apparent abrupt change in late 1948? Different filler formula? Trying to correct a problem? Expediency (and so cost savings)?

The Old Town factory notes below show changes in the filler formula in 1947, 1953, 1958, 1959, 1963, and 1964. The reasons for the changes were not noted but they probably included all of the things you listed and more.

Benson



Fillers.jpg
 
So far, all of them I've looked at are consistent with this break point:
152882 got two fills, June 8 and June 27, 1949. Every one I've found before this these dates has two fills on different days.
152811 got a single fill on July July 18, 1949. Every one I've found with filler applied on this date and later had only a single date for filling.
152882 double June 1949.jpeg 152811 single July 1949.jpeg
This may not be the end-all, but it appears that they stopped filling canvas on two different days (or they stopped noting any second fills) around the beginning of July, 1949
 
With those sizes of "mix", I'd like to see the mixer they mixed it in -
thinking either a cement mixer or bakery "bread" mixer.
 
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