Early Old Town serial number estimate

[Benson Gray]

Discussions about early Old Town serial numbers often lead to questions about when did they start and what number did the series begin with? The short answer is that nobody knows. Kennebec started with number 1001 and Joe Seliga started at 100.

However, a comment from Jim Clearwater's video in the WCHA site on YouTube.com gave me an idea for a way to estimate this. The series of Old Town build record cards appears to start in October of 1905 but many of the earliest build records also have an earlier "Built" date listed. See https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?attachments/434/ for the oldest example. I loaded the first 100 records with this notation into a spreadsheet and created the regression estimate shown below. The first reference to this "new" canoe company in a local newspaper is shown at https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/9315/page-2#post-62144 from October 13th, 1900. This chart indicates they may have started around serial number 50 on that date. The margin for error in this is huge but it gives a place to start.

Benson

 

[pklonowski]

Math is so much fun! Gotta love it!

 

[Benson Gray]

Bill Conrad brought a rough hull to show on the green at the Assembly this year. It caught my attention as shown below.

The heart shaped decks with 587 17 stamped as a serial number on the stem were particularly unusual.

The round hull shape looked like an Old Town HW model and the serial number font looked like the one used to stamp the 201 serial number in the Indian Old Town canoe shown at the link and picture below.

Thread 'A canoe from the Indian Old Town Canoe Company'

Nov 4, 2013

The pictures here show an Indian Old Town canoe with serial number 201. There are no build records that go back this far but it is probably circa 1901 when this company started advertising. This was the first form of the organization that eventually became the Old Town Canoe Company on January 23rd, 1903 as described at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?10647 previously. The name plate is a non-ferrous metal which may have been plated originally. It appears to be a GG model based on the current 35.5 inch width and 18 foot length. The center thwart is missing and was held on...

• Benson Gray
• Replies: 36
• Forum: Canoe Photo Index

There are no records available from this era but the chart in the first message above indicates that it may have been made around May, 1902 if it is from Old Town. The serial numbers from the two other confirmed early Old Town canoes that may have been made during this era are shown below for comparison.

Bill's canoe is now waiting it's turn in Chris Pearson's restoration queue as shown below.

Another mystery,

Benson

 

[chris pearson]

Sure does look like the same font and size. Does your canoe have the length stamped in it? Interesting too that there are no nail holes in the bow deck.

 

[Dan Miller]

If it is indeed an Old Town and built in May 1902, it would have had a Robertson and Old Town decal rather than a tag.

 

[Benson Gray]

Does your canoe have the length stamped in it?

No, there is not indication of a length stamp in either end. They probably started using decals shortly after January 16th, 1902 when the Robertson & Old Town Canoe Company was formed as Dan mentioned. The only known decal from this era is shown below. I have contacted the owner of this canoe to get better pictures and more information but they never responded. The canoe is probably in Colorado so I can't easily just go knock on their door.

The decal above appears to follow the same format as the later Old Town Canoe decal shown below.

This decal was originally on the deck of the canoe with serial number 1473 which belongs to Jim Clearwater. See https://forums.wcha.org/threads/alfred-wickett-model.6843/#post-36719 for more pictures of it. The only other known canoe with an outline of this decal is described at the first link below with serial number is 2781. The second link has better images of the decal before and after the restoration.

Thread 'Ot 15-2781'

Nov 15, 2007

The seller says it's circa 1920, and I would simply say the number is wrong, were it not for the remnants of a decal like the one on the catalog CD dated 1906 (attached below). The seller says the canoe comes with a catalog, and maybe this catalog is circa 1920... not the boat.

Anyway... nice little fifteen footer on eBay... is the record available?

Thanks!

• Kathryn Klos
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Serial Number Search

Post in thread 'Protecting Decal'

Mar 12, 2010

Some people can do an amazing job of removing varnish while preserving a decal. The first image below shows the faint shadow of an early Old Town decal under many coats of grime etc. Rollin Thurlow was able to remove the junk and preserve most of the remaining decal as shown in the second image. It is still far short of the example shown in the third image but that decal was lost completely during the restoration process. Hopefully someone will find a better example of this decal some day and share a clear picture of it here.

Benson

• Benson Gray

There have also been some questions about the deck shape. The two known decks from the Indian Old Town Canoe Company are both heart shaped and the 1901 catalog appears to confirm this. The other deck is shown at the link below.

Post in thread 'Interesting fragment from The Indian Canoe Co.'

May 31, 2010

Explain to me why it went for so much? Are Indian Old Towns that rare?

This went for more than I expected so I can't explain why. It is the only Indian Old Town canoe deck that I have ever seen. The Indian Old Town Canoe Company appears to have existed for a short time before 1902. The group that started it purchased the Middle Street factory in October of 1901 as shown at http://forums.wcha.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10787&d=1274654935 before June of 1901. They joined with J. R. Robertson in January of 1902 and created the Robertson and Old Town Canoe Company...

• Benson Gray

The ogee deck shape first appears in the 1902 Robertson & Old Town Canoe catalog. The two confirmed early Old Town canoes with serial numbers 1472 and 2781 both have ogee shaped decks.

Benson

 

[Benson Gray]

The current 34 inch width and 13 inch depth indicate that this may be an IF model (which is known as the Guide model today) as shown in the 1902 catalog page below. The hull appears to have rounded out a bit over the years, which is not unusual in canoes of this age.

Benson