builders insurance

Bottom line here is that most insurance companies are grouping us in with high risk boating.I wonder if you make skis you would be held accountable for tree smashing.
Best quote that I have from an agent"what if someone drowns".
If a company is interested in underwriting a policy for "artisans"or small boat builders and/or repair facilities based on actual risk rather than assumed incompetance and imbacillity then I am more than happy to sign on .
Beg pardon.Bring on the pointy sticks.
John
 
You might try contacting naseweb.com, the National Association for the Self Employed - at least for US businesses.

A Group Policy will require several thousand members before it's cost effective. It's going to be in your best interest to join a group that already exists.

-t
 
I don't think any of us out here in the east want to go to Marks' party right now - those poor Vancouverites have hit -2 deg C !!!
Regarding Can vs US problem, I only know that when my insurance broker asked if I sold to the US, that was game over. Seems to be the sueing scare is most prominent problem here, not burning down shops. I would quite happily have no liability (like who would sue me when they can sue McDonalds over hot coffee), but I sure would like fire insurance.
Glen Fallis of Voyageur canoe near Peterborough ON, has been self insuring for 25 years - wish I had done that 15 years ago and I would have had at least a tiny nestegg.
I too think the group insurance thing might be the only way.
Me, I am looking into putting in a sprinkler system with the money I didn't pay to the insurance company. I might just be further ahead in the long run.
But those with mortgages are definitely stuck.

I think I will post a little note in the maintenance section of our forum referring people to this thread as I think lots of folks don't go beyond that area. Maybe we might find some US builders in the same pickle.
Pam
 
US builders

The US builders are definatly in the same boat. I know Redfish kayak pays out a montly sum that would make your jaw hit the floor and they just sell kits.
The few prices I got for liability insurance were very specific about not covering any product that went to the states. In a sense, we are being economicay frozen out of the US market by the insurance industry at least in terms of liability coverage. Fire and personal injury are another matter and that is where just being a woodworker is getting you.
We have two different insurance issues here but both have the same result. They both put us out of business one way or the other.
I deal with the fire and theft issue by keeping most of my hand tools in the house. I warn my customers that I have no insurance covering their boats and so far so good but I know it will eventually kill some business. I haven't touched any yachts lately because I'm worried about being on the hook. That's cutting into the only profitable business I do.
Pam, has the guild just not found a willing unsurer?
 
Builders' Guild and insurance

Thanks for the party invite Mark!
The Builder's Guild has been suffering from a small membership and would benefit greatly from having more bodies to help out and energize the organization. The initial idea was to have a place where builders could meet/get together (either physically or through the web), share ideas and problems, buy cooperatively in order to get better pricing, and hopefully do some group advertising and also group insurance.
We got off to a pretty good start, but ran into some growing pains as I am sure all new organizations do and lost some members. I think perhaps canoe builders tend to be pretty independent stubborn folks (you have to be to stay at this as a job!!) and working in a group may be harder for us than say for the "normal" employee who is used to it. Anyway, I still think the idea of a professional builders group is a good one, and maybe this insurance issue will help to bring us all together to finally work together. I know the WCHA is absolutely the best at promoting wooden canoes, and sharing of ideas to all, but there are times when, as a professional builder, I don't really want to spread to the whole world, if , let's say, my filler has been messing up big time. I'd ask for help from other builders in the guild, but wouldn't really want my potential buying public to know. I know there have been some who think it not necessary and that the wcha forum is enough, but perhaps they have never had filler meltdowns and not wanted the world to know!!! Lucky them!!

Anyway, if you want some info on the Wooden Canoe Builders' Guild contact Dave Alguire of Old Delta Canoes 613-928-2850 dalguire@cybertap.com
 
Thanks Pam,
I e-mailed Dave.
I understand your concern about airing dirty laundry so to speak. Only another builder would understand how something you've done successfuly a hundred times can suddenly screw up for no obvious reason, especially in the area of finishes.
Getting back on topic, no word from the insurance people on a group policy yet.
 
Catch 22

I had considered going pro , becoming a member of the builders guild , but gave up the idea due to the insurance problem . Point is you need enough new members to get the insurance but if I become a member I will lose the insurance I have .
 
Going pro can be a great way to rip the fun out of any activity. If you don't need to make a living from it, best to just go underground I think. Some would argue that it provides unfair competion to the pros but I feel that the best promotion for our industry is to have as many people out on the water in wooden boats as possible.
 
Mark is right about the going pro part,, it does have its nuances. Most of the time I really enjoy the work. The insurance thing is a concern. I am happy to say I just recently sent in my membership application to the guild. I,m so lonelyyyyyyyy all by myself on the island. :) Looking forward to it very much.
 
I don"t know if this might be possible or not, but fyi. I had a construction co. in the 80's and could not afford ins. so I got a 1 million $ liability policy for @ $1000. now I never had to file any claims so I don't know if they would have paid or not but my accountant at the time assured me I was covered no matter what. This may be something worth asking your respective ins. agents @. keep us posted-lee...
 
hi,
I just wanted to let everyone know some of my results. I have recently been in contact with the cooperators insurance company here in Canada. They have a basic home based business policy and so far it looks like they will be able to offer coverage for canoe builders. I will have to fill out the reem of paperwork and they will send it off for approval and rates. Like I said it looks very promising so far. I will post more information as I get it.
 
First news in a long time Larry.We have a Co-Operators around here somewhere.Should I try applying?With my luck I could jepordize your application.I'm waiting to hear back from my next to last insurance corperation.
John
 
insurance ?

me again, another brain storm (wife call them farts :confused: ) has anyone of you fellas in the N.E.(cold ne.) checked with other small boat builders- shoot, any other watercraft builders to see what they were doing about insurance? I would figure that between them and us we might all benefit- that could be a bunch of people especially if you include our northern bretheren. and sisteren-Pam. It also makes a difference if you have employees or not. see ya.lee... ;)
 
This thread is very, let me repeat, VERY interesting and timely for me.

Insurance is a huge bugaboo for me. I'm not worried about my clients being stupid and having accidents. Its not the rank beginners, but experienced paddlers who are attracted to wooden canoes. I'm not worried about theft, really, by the time that I've paid my premiums for 3-4 years, I can replace all my portable tools with brand new ones! Its the total loss from fire and the implications of not having business insurance has on my homeowners policy that scares me, and my wife! Oh, and did you know that they just do not want to insure a wood frame building if used for woodworking!!! so maybe I need a butt ugly, and expensive, steel contraption in my yard.

Party at Mark's place! Yeah! If that's too far for Pam an other out East, we can meet in the middle at mine. I an't scared of no flaming marshmellows!
 
A quick reply.
I just signed at $2000.00 canadian for liability and "Shiprepairer"liability which covers clients boats at the shop and liability for the 6 months following.
Their main concern seems to be theft.
I didn't get fire insurance.Same problem.Wood bult woodworking shop.
John
 
WOW! I hope that you put through enough work to cover that cost. And still no fire coverage when you pay that much?
 
Hey Doug,Didn't try for fire.I'd self insure but that wasn't an option.Either pay down the mortgage(dropping all insurance)or close the shop.Fortunatly,or unfortunatly,as the case may be I had too many commitments to compromise.
Where's Lorrette?
John
 
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