BN Morris: How bad is it, Doc?

[Spokeshave]

Hi everyone,

I'm a newbie to the forum who's just bought his first wooden canoe, although not my first wooden boat. My canoe has an interesting back story, and a few flaws that I'm hoping somebody here could advise me on.

First, the history: the canoe is a 17' BN Morris from the Woodenboat Store plans, built as part of a class at a Maine boat building school (probably about five years ago). For some reason, the boat was never completed, and has been stored indoors at the school ever since. The canvas was applied and filled, the inwales were installed, and the framing for the decks was begun. It still needs outwales, decks, paint, and varnish. I bought it for short money and hoped to finish it off quickly and easily.

Of course, nothing is ever as quick and easy as we'd like, and when I got it home, I noticed a few problems. There were a few gaps in the planking near the bow and stern, the largest maybe 1/8". The canvas had been cut rather roughly, and in some places did not extend to the tops of the ribs. I assume these are not big issues, since the planks will swell somewhat in water, and the outwales will cover the top of the canvas.

More seriously, the seams at the stems are poorly executed. They form a lumpy profile in side elevation, and there will be gaps if I install the typical Morris ash outer stem. And most seriously, one of the stems is seriously crooked. In the photo below, you can clearly see that the line of the aft stem is not in the same plane as the fore stem.



So finally, my question is this: is this stem situation worth fixing, and if so, how difficult would it be to rectify? I assume the crooked stern will make the boat track a little worse, but I can't think of a way to fix it without completely recanvassing and rebuilding the stern. I really, REALLY don't want to do this. The lumpy seams will mean I have to either go with a brass stem band, none at all, or use a lot of filler to make up the space to install the wooden one. (This last option seems... leaky.) Again, the only real fix I can think of is recanvassing. Does anyone have any advice on this matter? Is there a way to fix just an end of the boat without installing a new canvas? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! (Heck, if you've even read this far, I appreciate that!)

Thanks,

Dan

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Hi Dan,

Looks like a nice canoe. Problems don't sound as bad as you imagine. Looks like this was intended to be open gunwale, in which case canvas and planking should be cut down a little below the rib tops to accommodate the outwale rabbet. About gaps- they are the way they are, and lots of old canoes have similar gaps. Particularly if they are above the stem area in the bow and stern, these gaps probably won't show unless you're looking for them, and they're unlikely to trap lots of debris.

And the stems - that might be something you'll just have to live with. You could dismantle the entire end and play with left and right sides to try to plumb the stem, but you have no extra planking and inwales which you might need for an adjustment. Old canoes - even from highly respected manufacturers - sometimes have misshapen stems, maybe from workmanship, maybe from wood movement over the years. Maybe just apply some additional filler and shape the canvas up better at the stems and don't worry too much about the rest. So you'll only be able to turn to the left... no big deal (just kiddin'!).

With a little work, you'll have a very nice canoe with a few unique characteristics. And all for "short money". Not bad!

- Horatio

 

[Steve Ambrose]

The stems are out of plumb either because the hull has developed a bit of twist or they were never plumb to begin with and, as Horatio noted, the only fix is to determine which one is straight and then take the other end apart. Get some fairing epoxy (much like bondo) to smooth out the canvas seams at the stems. The deck structure gets what amounts to thin covering boards - here's a build thread that will help you out: http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?8332-Construction-of-a-Morris&highlight=morris

 

[Spokeshave]

Thanks gentlemen. I'm relieved that I can live with the crooked stem.

Steve,
If I were to smooth out my bumpy canvas joint with fairing epoxy, would there be an increased chance of leakage from an imperfect bond between the epoxy and the canvas? Would thickened West System work as a fairing epoxy?

I'm trying to decide whether I should go this route, or forgo the wooden stem and keel completely. This second option is kind of appealing because it would require fewer potentially leaky holes in the canvas, but on the other hand, I like the protection that the stems and keel would provide. (I don't really care about producing an "authentic" Morris canoe, because the boat is not an original anyhow.) If I go with wooden stems, I think some sort of fairing epoxy will be vital, as gaps between the wood and the canvas would expose the shafts of the rivets holding it together. Water would almost certainly find its way in through the rivet holes...

Thanks again for your help!

-Dan

 

[Fitz]

If your lumpy canvas at the stem is mostly the edges of the canvas, you can do a fair amount of smoothing of the edges with coarse sandpaper or a rasp, prior to plenty of paint. This assumes that the stem area was adequately filled with canoe canvas filler. I always hit the stems with plenty of filler during a filling job.

Outside Stems. I had a great deal of help (OK, I served as muscle and alignment specialist) putting on outside stems yesterday. This was an OTCA. Old Town concaved the back of the outer stems to accept plenty of bedding compound. This helps conceal the stem seam too.

I am not sure of the stem dimensions for a Morris, but on the OTCA, the face of the inner stem was left wide (3/4 inch) to accept the back of the outer stem - 3/4 inch. The outer stem is then beveled to 3/8 inch to serve to mount the brass stem band on. If you leave the outer stem off, you may be lacking a bit of that "fine entry" that we wooden canoe lovers enjoy!

If you bed the stems and the keel properly and then maintain the paint, and maintain the canoe, you probably won't see any leaks at least until it is ready for another canvas job.

Keep us posted.

Fitz

 

[Spokeshave]

Thanks Fitz. The concave-back stem is a clever idea... What do people usually use for bedding compounds? I use a rubbery product called "Boat Life" extensively on my dory. Is it something similar to that?

I'll definitely be posting some progress pics as this thing comes along...

 

[Steve Ambrose]

As Fitz noted the width of the face of your existing stem will determine if you can or should attempt outside stems. Some Morris boats had them, others did not. I'm working on one that had everything but outside stems and based on the width of the stem faces, it probably never had them even though it had a keel and the trim level would certainly indicate outside stems would have been appropriate. The keel simply tapers down to the hull and the thin ends tuck under the stem bands.

 

[Fitz]

Interlux boatyard bedding compound and Dolphinite are both popular for bedding. Others may chime in with other compounds. The OTCA outside stem mates with the keel, without tapering or thinning. The keel does taper slightly in the last foot or so before meeting the keel, but it does not thin (the outside stems and keel form a continuous ridge along the length of the canoe). The stem band simply mounts on the outside stem and a portion of the keel. I can shoot a photo if it helps.

Fitz

 

[Spokeshave]

This boat was built to the plans available from Woodenboat Magazine, which call for the wooden stems... So I guess I'm stuck with them! I do like the idea of the extra strength and wear resistance the wooden stems provide, so I don't mind the extra work. My biggest concern now is smoothing out the lumpy canvas, but from what I've heard in this thread, that doesn't sound like an insurmountable obstacle. It seems like the most important thing is to provide an even bearing surface on which to mount the stem.

 

[Spokeshave]

Fitz, if you have a photo of the joint between the stem and the keel, that would be really helpful. The plans are a little sketchy in that regard. Thanks!

 

[Fitz]

Outside Stem to Keel

Here is a photo of the end of the outside stem. The keel butts up against this cut. I still need to install the new keel.

Keep in mind this is an OTCA. I do not know how Mr. Morris did it.

Fitz

 

[Spokeshave]

Hmm, that's pretty simple. Somewhere else on the web I saw a Morris stem with a short stepped scarf into the keel. Thanks for the pics!

 

[yeolwoodsman]

The plans that I used from Northwoods Canoe does show it as a half lap joint at the transition from the outside stem to the keel. That's how we did it when we got to that step. The brass stem band then covers the joint. Pretty straight forward.

 

[Spokeshave]

That sounds like a very solid construction... Did you rivet right through the half lap joint and the stem?

 

[yeolwoodsman]

We used screws to attach the keel at every rib according to the plans. Then just planned the joint to land at one of the ribs. Key thing is to predrill the holes for the screws or you risk splitting the joint. Be sure to bed everything in bedding compound. After a nice paint job all that pretty much blends together.