Another Mystery Canoe

[frkamerling]

The canoe in the attached photos is up for sale. With the torpedo ends, shape of the decks and thwart-like seats, it looks like a Charles River boat. Could any of you more experienced paddlers offer an opinion as to the maker?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Fred K.

 

[Dan Miller]

I'm sure Dan Miller will know for sure.

Charles River canoes leave me baffled. Especially the long deck ones.

In this case, this style deck was used by Waltham Boat and Canoe Co., J.R. Robertson, and Crandell. Crandell only built 17' long canoes, and I don't recall ever seeing a Crandell with torpedo stems.

I have seen seats like this on other Robertsons. Look for a brand on top face of the seats or thwarts adjacent to the gunwales.

 

[ken.kelly]

Hi Fred,
Dan is right.
This looks just like my Robertson Irene
The deck shape and solid mahogany seats are unique to this maker. Look for a serial number on the stem that may include a couple digits from 32 to 35. And as Dan says - my seats - close to the gunnels have a small imprint of the Robertson Canoe co. However, I've seen others just like this that do not have that imprint....it is still a Robertson.
Nice canoe. Bring it to Assembly!

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

I've seen others just like this that do not have that imprint....it is still a Robertson.
Nice canoe. Bring it to Assembly!

Please enlighten us - how can we be sure it's a Robertson? If there is a manufacturer's name on it, it's probably from that maker (but Robertson also ran a livery on the Charles and could have put his name on anything he owned). But if there's no maker's mark and builders could do anything the wanted, how to conclude that it's a fact that a particular maker built it?

 

[Dan Miller]

Please enlighten us - how can we be sure it's a Robertson?

We may never be entirely sure. However, consider that this particular tri-lobe deck was used by three builders - Waltham Canoe and Boat Company, J.R. Robertson, and H.E. Crandell.

Waltham Boat and Canoe Company was run by Charles Bertram Robertson - J.R. Robertson's nephew. Charles worked for Robertson both before and after working for Waltham, and Waltham burned down in 1912 - just about the time the torpedo-stemmed canoe was introduced on the Charles River.

H.E. Crandell took over J.R. Robertson's boat house on Lake Quinsigamond. He also happened to be J.R. Robertson's son-in-law. Crandell advertised only building 17' canoes, is not known to build torpedo stemmed canoes, and only built 17' canoes - if you wanted something else, it could be supplied "owing to his close connection with Mr. J.R. Robertson."

Yes, Robertson ran a livery as well, but as he also had the largest and longest-lived canoe factory on the Charles, it hardly makes sense that he would have much else in it apart from canoes his own factory built.

The combination of deck shape, torpedo stem and seat style (well documented in both canvas-covered and all-wood canoes built by Robertson) all point to Robertson as the builder.

 

[ken.kelly]

Dear H.E. (and Fred)
Fair question. Thanks Dan for the history review of Robertsons many connections and a more academic approach to this canoes identification.
Other rationale that supports my being so sure it is a Robertson is more subjective and based on my experiences viewing and collecting:

We have seen a few examples of this model - some with Robertson identification and some not, but all appear identical and I've never seen anything 'similar' but not just like this canoe. This canoe appears to have deck and seat features identical to my Robertson.

The solid mahogany seats stylishly shaped like very wide Charles River thwarts are unique to this canoe model.

All the models like this canoe I've seen are 1930s production era...when Robertson was one of the few builders still active on the Charles. At that time, canoeing on the Charles wasn't as popular as it had been years earlier, so we don't see as many canoes or as much innovation in canoe styles, or the quick copying of popular design features by competing builders.

I expect the serial number is 4-digit in the 3200 number area...mine is 3233. Besides the fading popularity of social canoeing, these were depression times and not as many canoes were being made.

Maybe I shouldn't be so sure it is a Robertson, but combined with the history Dan provides, these canoe details make me more certain.

Thanks for asking.

 

[bredlo]

I have a similar canoe: wide, thwart-like seats, tri-lobe short decks, torpedo ends... and haven't found any identifying maker's marks or serial numbers. It is suggested (in a brief, older article written about this particular canoe) that the manufacturer was Oliver Kingsbury, and the canoe was part of the fleet at the Riverside Boat House in Newton, MA. It was reportedly recovered after a fire destroyed the boathouse in the early 1950's.

I don't know about the veracity of any of this, simply saying these basic features may have been used in a Kingsbury design, as well. Looks like (at the very least) I have different seat hangers than the one in the original post.

 

[Dan Miller]

Brad,

I could be wrong, but the deck on your canoe looks like a replacement to me.

Kingsbury used a different deck style than Robertson - you can see the comparison here:http://dragonflycanoe.com/wood-canoe-identification-guide/features-decks/ (scroll down to the "Multi-Lode Decks" section.

Dan

 

[Benson Gray]

I typically try to stay out of these Charles River builder discussions since I'm baffled by most of them as well. However, there are two distinguishing features of Kingsbury canoes to consider. Kevin Martin still has their original forms and commented at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?5651-Help-to-identify-charles-river-canoe&p=30932#post30932 that "The best way to tell may be the beam. Kingsbury canoes were narrower than the other builders. They measure around 30" to the outside of the planking at the gunwales."

Several years ago the Assembly featured Charles River canoes and a Kingsbury descendent attended. He led a walk around the green where a UFO like this was shown and he commented that the bevel on the end of the inside stem was a good way to identify a Kingsbury. Paul Miller provided some pictures at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?10686-Ct-ufo&p=55561#post55561 which may help show the differences. Good luck,

Benson

 

[frkamerling]

WOW! A lot of insight on this 'mystery' canoe. Thank you all so much. I've been traveling (OK, fishing) the last week so this is the first chance I've had to check out your responses. I hope to see the canoe soon and, if I buy it, I could bring it to assembly!? Thanks again for your help,
Fred K

 

[ken.kelly]

Traveling to fish is good.
It looks like the canoe is in pretty good condition. good canvas in the photos.
So hope the price is fair and you do buy it and bring it to Assembly. I'd love to see it.