1952 17' Octa stem-deck-inwale interface

[David Dannenberg]

All,

Well, spring is springing and I want to get back restoring our 1952 Old Town Octa. As is the sad case with many wood and canvas canoes this one appears to have spent some time upside down in dirt resulting in rot to the ends of the stems and ends of the inner gunwales.

We can splice the inwales alright and the decks are OK.

Having tried and failed to bend splices for the stems, we purchased new stems. Our plan is to cut a scarf on each of the old stems and a corresponding scarf into the new stems and splice them. I suspect this is easier than replacing the entire stems. I think we can manage the scarf joints.

First of all, does this really make more sense than replacing the entire stems? Looks like we would have to pull about 40 nails per stem to get the originals out, but I do think the canoe would hold its shape given the overall sound condition of the decks, ribs, cant ribs, and most of the length of the inwales where they attach to the decks. Anyone tried to replace entire stems without dismantling everything that touches them? If so, do you have any tips and photos of the process you can send along?

Assuming we scarf a portion of the new stems to the original stems, the question is this: on this canoe how do the inwales, stem, and deck interface? Does anyone have a photo of this joint on an Octa? I do understand generally the interface of these elements, but the details vary among different makes and models of canoe.

Any advice and especially photos would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

David Dannenberg

 

[Dave Wermuth]

Of course I can never find a photo when I want to but the stem would butt up under the tips of the inwales and finish nails go in at an angle downward on either side. I've removed stems and spliced them. I think I would rather have as much of the original as possible, but if you have replacement stems and they are stamped you might want to use them. For a splice, you probably already know to make it good and long.

 

[David Dannenberg]

Thanks. Does the stem terminate under the deck? If so, does a cross section of the stem butt to the underside of the stem, or curve under at an angle?
David Dannenberg, Phila, PA

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I think a good way to think about it is to ignore the deck for a moment and focus on bringing the inwales together first. Then let the stem but up under the joint where the inwales fit together. And last of all fit the deck in.

 

[Larry Meyer]

In the Knowledge Base section of the Forum, in sub-section Build and Restore, is a long post by Treewater called Rebuild Rotted Tips.
Forums.wcha.org/knowledgebase/BuildRestore:Rebuild+rotted+tips.

It should answer a lot of your questions.

 

[David Dannenberg]

Thanks. On some canoes all three are fit together. I can picture what you are describing. Easier really.

 

[mlackore]

I am not sure if the Otca will be the same joint as the 1935 15' 50 lb model OT and I am no expert on canoe restorations, but attached is a photo of the joint on the one that I am restoring. This was how it was when it was disassembled.







Not shown in the photos above is a notch cut into the tip of the deck. You can see it marked out on the unbent deck in the photo below.


Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[David Dannenberg]

Thanks. Went there and will read in detail soon.

 

[David Dannenberg]

Mike,

Thanks. Very helpful. I think that the very tips of our decks are rotted out. They will be covered by the endplates. The rest of the decks are in great shape--beautiful mahogany that I am loathe to mess with much. Also they are not flat. I could I suppose dutchman in pieces. Will look closer next time I am out there.

David