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Wood has taken a memory

Discussion in 'Strippers, Stitch-n-Glue, and Other Wood Composite' started by Blue Viking, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. Blue Viking

    Blue Viking Wooden Canoe Maniac

    Got this strip built that had been "hanging" on a deck by a chain on the center thwart. Eventually the weight tore the other end of the thwart from the gunwale and the whole thing hung by this chain for 3 years outside. I have completely stripped the glass off inside and out with much deliberation and care and it now appears in good condition and re-glassable. EXCEPT!:( that the strips at that center thwart area have taken a severe memory. I was wondering if I soaked the wood in that area down about 5-6 strips and then made some type of clamp and brace device if it would bring that area back to conform with the natural configuration as it was constructed....I need some help on this one!;)
     
  2. OP
    OP
    Blue Viking

    Blue Viking Wooden Canoe Maniac

    PS: pictures

    Gointgto attach some pictures of the problem if it works
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2006
  3. MikeCav

    MikeCav Restorer/Videographer

    Just a guess here, but it seems like if you clamp the boat back into proper position, put some solid In/out wales on the boat, and then get the thwarts on, it should pull back.

    BTW - nice job on stripping the fiberglass, how'd you do it?
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Blue Viking

    Blue Viking Wooden Canoe Maniac

    Got lucky!

    ;) I got really lucky on this one. It was built by three high school kids and they must not have read Gil Gilpatricks book!..They never sealed the wood before glassing it, so when it got soaked from sitting in the weather, it just lifted away from the wood like peeling a banana. My problem is that the memory is only for about 18 to 30 inches in the area of the center. I guess my next move is to make a center station and another on each end of center and then steam bend that area back into conforming with its natural tendancy...thanks for the suggestion
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Blue Viking

    Blue Viking Wooden Canoe Maniac

    Ps!

    When I said each end of the center station, I meant 18" on each end of center. That should be the only area of concern where it has taken that memory from hanging outside on the center thwart for 3 years.
     
  6. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    It's much more likely that the glass peeled easily because they used polyester resin (possibly even surfacing resin instead of unwaxed laminating resin) than any thing to do with whether or not the wood was sealed or pre-coated. There are drastic differences in the adhesive strength to wood for various types and brands of polyester and the majority aren't very good. Technique also has something to do with it. There are those who prefer pre-coating and those who don't. Neither method is a clear winner in terms of making a better bond. For people new to fiberglassing, pre-coating can help keep the wood from wicking resin out of the fabric and leaving resin-starved areas. Most experienced glassers can skip the pre-coat and avoid starved areas just by applying and working the resin carefully. The final bond is just as good and they may save a pound or two of resin weight.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Blue Viking

    Blue Viking Wooden Canoe Maniac

    Thanks for the info Todd. I am going to re-glass using Gil Gilpatricks method in his book...Once I removed the glass, I can see that it has been over some bumpy roads!...Lots of scractches and clear evidence that the single piece of glass was penetrated in several places allowing water to enter..I am going to use the suggested "football" piece under the glassing to give it some strength outside...They had put pieces on the inside and really wetted it in thick..if they had done that on the ouside I doubt if it would have started to leak. /B]
     
  8. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    To avoid the all too common "My boat split on the inside, what do I do now?" post in the future, do yourself a favor and match the layups on the inside and outside. The extra football layer outside is good for abrasion and puncture resistance, but doing the same on the inside goes a lot farther with respect to making a strong hull. In fact, the inside fiberglass layers on a stripper are generally more important and have to withstand a lot more stress than those on the outside.
     
  9. jackbat

    jackbat Jackbat

    Wow, thats amazing

    I have to agree with Todd on his opinion that this was poly and not epoxy. People forget that outside of the boat world, epoxy is nothing more than a very hard glue. If that had been epoxy resin on that boat, the chances of you getting that cloth off there like that without ripping a hole in the boat would have been zero. You would have had a better chance of hitting the lottery.

    I also agree that the saturation layer of epoxy is only for those that havn't figured out how to satruate the cloth and the wood at the same time. Cedar is a very soft wood that will absorb epoxy well so as long as you put it on and soak the cloth well, you will not have any issues. In fact if you are using an epoxy that blushes you could be causing yourself more headaches by first coating the boat. Be sure to read the instructions well of any epoxy because they are not all created equal. A non blushing epoxy can take multiple layers with no work in between layers. A blushing epoxy requires a good deal of work cleaning off the previous layer before putting down the new one.

    If you are going to be pulling her up on the beach or banging rocks then the additional layer is a good idea on the bottom. Assuming the first layer of glass is good enough for strength the second layer is simply an extra barrier for the rocks and logs that will beat up on your boat. However most people stop too low on the boat. Think about where a rock would hit you and glass that high on the boat. Usually this is at least 1/3 of the way up the side of the hull.

    As for the pregnancy in the side of your hull. Wow, that is not going to be easy. I think if you have any chance at making that right you will have to build a female form on the outside that holds the boat in while you glass the inside of the boat. There is going to be a good deal of pressure there so I would not use 6 oz cloth I would go with somthing heavier. 10 oz is a bit extreme but easy to find. 8 oz would be better. Give that a long time to fully cure before you even thing about pulling it out of the mold. Then if it were me I would build something to go right there like a built in cooler, seat or just a compartment that I could use fillets and glass tape on. This would become a permanant part of the boat and when you pulled it off the the cradle it would act as a permanent form on the inside of the boat with glass tape holding it in. I don't think there is any other way of keeping that side in other than that.

    Just my opinion

    Jack Battersby
    Sandy Point Boat Works
    WWW.sandypointboatworks.com
     
  10. Rollin Thurlow

    Rollin Thurlow member since 1980

    It might be easier to push the other side to match the bulge.
    Who Knows, you might make a whole new class of boats!
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Blue Viking

    Blue Viking Wooden Canoe Maniac

    :D Believe it or not Rollin, I thought about that! The only problem with that is that it is no longer a canoe, but rather some type of primitive means of transportation..it would like two pyramids hooked together and hollowed out!. Sitting here have one heck of a good laugh ...have made the templates for 5 stations that I will make and then soak the whole side in that disfigured area and then staple or tack it to the stations and when it dries will see if it holds the right design...if it does will leave the stations in and do the glassing on the outside before removing them. If that doesnt work will then remove a large portion of that side and replace with new strips before glassing..wanted to avoid that procedure if possible. thanks for that remark...i am still sitting here having a good laugh:D

    "Life is not determined by how many strokes of the paddle it takes to get there, but rather in the JOY of the journey" (Blue Viking)
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Blue Viking

    Blue Viking Wooden Canoe Maniac

    :confused: Would anyone be able to identify the design of this canoe? It is 16' and 34 1/2 " and 12" . It has strip built panels in the ends that are flotation chambers. The deck is the typical arrowhead design. It resembles the standard White design. It was built somewhere in the Oxford Hills area of Maine by three high school students about 10 years ago. Has been WELL USED and has the scars on the bottom to show it. Must have been rugged when new and rode or slid over many rocks. Most of these have bleached out well and should disappear in the glassing. Thanks in advance
     

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