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Problems When Glassing

Discussion in 'Strippers, Stitch-n-Glue, and Other Wood Composite' started by Pantry3cow, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. Pantry3cow

    Pantry3cow Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Well today after cleaning shop it was the day to start glassing. I got every thing ready and it was going well until..... Well my lack of experience showed. The glass after putting on I’m gonna say “floated” and now I have some ripples in the glass. Not bubbles as there is resin under the glass which has started to cure.. I tried to make small cuts and push the resin out to no avail. I also have some what I’ll call tiger striping that looks like the woods wet edge from the different batches as I tried to keep the edge wet as I went along the canoe. Gee I only used the time to mix a batch between applications. My application method was to mix 5 pumps of resin and hardener then pour on and spread with a brush then squeegee it out. I’ll include pics for you to see.
    I used a squeegee and thought I had gotten enough excess off but apparently not. Should I have done a precoat?
    I guess I was afraid to squeegee too much of the resin out of the glass as it appeared to become dry. It now looks like I have a little more sanding in my future as I also have runs a sags in some spots on the sides. Which I figured I would have anyway. As I type this I’m between the 2nd and 3rd coats the second coat went as planned the 2nd coat was applied by foam roller. My shop is at 73* I’m using west system 105/207 the second coat was applied just thin enough to wet everything out. Questions are what did I do wrong? Too much resin? I know that it is not a write off but I just got a whole lot more work. Please feel free to comment as I want to improve and still have the inside to do.

    Thanks phil
     

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  2. Jim Dodd

    Jim Dodd LOVES Wooden Canoes

    One question. How long did you wait to apply the second (first Fill coat) ?
    After applying the, first (wetout) coat, and removing the excess with a squeegee, you need to wait until the first coat is tack free.

    If this is your first glassing experience, it's good to have a helper, especially with glassing experience, and can mix resin for you !

    I glass alone, and I'll offer a couple of tips. I use good quality Cigar type foam rollers, instead of a squeegee for application. I always had trouble keeping resin from running off the hull with a squeegee. I can apply a coat faster with the roller.
    I prefill several cups with just the resin, when I need another cup of mixed resin, I just have to add hardener, and mix. Saves me time. Sometimes it can get Hectic if your resin starts to get Hot in the cup!!!

    The runs can be prevented, by applying additional Fill coats (After the first Fill coat) while the previous Fill coat is Still Tacky. The tackiness holds the next coat better, and helps keep from running !

    Your hull will be fine ! A little extra weight, is all.

    Don't Sand ! Scrape those runs within a day ! They are easier to scrape, and it beats sanding latter on !!!!

    I get resin lines between batches. I blame it on pouring the resin ON the hull. If I pour mixed resin in a paint tray, and use roller to transfer the resin to the hull, this helps.

    I would have been glad to personally help if I lived closer !

    Jim
     
  3. Jim Dodd

    Jim Dodd LOVES Wooden Canoes

    I've patched several Flaws ( air pockets, wrinkles, and such) that came out invisible, when done properly ! You can too !

    Good Luck Phil !

    Jim
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Pantry3cow

    Pantry3cow Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Jim thanks for the great tips On my fill coats I waited minimum 3hours and the surface was not tack free but as sticky as masking tape or less. I’m using varnish fine foam rollers they work well and don’t need a lot off resin to fill. I also use a roller that I cut in half for tacking the whole surface after the fill coat. The glass has lifted on the sides only as I show in the one photo.they look like bubbles but you can’t push them down. A light sanding will help once cured. Thanks for the tips re scraping instead of sanding. I now have a second fill coat on and the third will go on in about an hour. It is looking a little better.
     
  5. Jim Dodd

    Jim Dodd LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Curious what glass cloth you used ? Did you get it from the same supplier as the resin ? Thinking maybe the cloth might have been Volan ? Silan finish is what you should be using, with epoxy.

    Your Technic sounds good !

    I like ! What design ?

    Jim
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Pantry3cow

    Pantry3cow Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Wee too by laughing loon I’ll check on the glass from the supplier. I now have the glass coat and three filler coats on it looks a little better but will need some sanding and it should come out OK I think the cloth just didn’t take the curve of the canoe well and my lack of experience allowed it to let’s call it wrinkle thanks Jim
     
  7. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    Silane-sized cloth may be better quality (fewer fuzzy broken strands) than volan-sized fiberglass cloth, but it is by no means absolutely required for work with epoxy. A great number of strippers and other boats were built successfully using epoxy with Volan fabric long before silane sizing even became available - and still are being built.
     
  8. Kent E. Nord

    Kent E. Nord Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Your next boat will be better, and yes, there will be another.:) Wet glass moves more than one might think. I always start in the middle and move toward the stems and down,at an angle toward the edge/rails, always! If wrinkles appear one can go to the end of the cloth and pull just a tad and get them out, just watch the boat and see where the pulling is effecting the cloth til it moves where the wrinkle is. One coat a day will let the resin cure proper between fill coats.
    Your boat looks fine to me just the same. :cool:
     
    Jim Dodd likes this.
  9. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    Another thing which can help to remove the potential for wrinkles is to initially spread the dry cloth over the hull and leave yourself some excess, but go along and trim the woven selvedge edges off. This will free up the weave so that it can conform better to curves and odd shapes. It makes it much easier to get small wrinkles to lie down and disappear. I have always done my filler coats pretty much as fast as the previous layer has stiffened enough that you won't disturb it. That way you don't have to be concerned about any problems with amine blush needing to be removed before recoating or contaminants getting on the hull. I tend to work around the clock when glassing. Most of the effort goes into the initial glass application and the first filler coat or two. After that, the additional coats take only a few minutes to apply, and I'll just run out and do one whenever the previous coat is ready for it, regardless of what time it is until I have them all on.
    Rule of thumb which works with just about any resin - Roll on thin filler coats until you have applied enough of them that the weave is completely covered, then add one more coat as a sanding cushion, so that you can sand the boat smooth without cutting into the cloth. With my personal rolling style and rollers, that usually means 5-6 filler coats on cloth in the six to eight ounce weight range and WEST Epoxy. Other rollers, other resins and other techniques may need a different number of coats to fill well.
     
    Jim Dodd and Kent E. Nord like this.
  10. Jim Dodd

    Jim Dodd LOVES Wooden Canoes

    I use pretty much the same Technic as Todd. except after I apply the first fill coat, I repeat the fill coats, while the previous coat is still tacky ! The Tack holds the resin, and nearly eliminates runs.
    Yes, I end up getting up during the night for fill coats. I'm really liking those little "Cigar" type foam rollers !

    When I used System Three's " Clear Coat" I would need about 5 or 6 fill coats to completely fill the weave ! RAKA, 127 + Non blush 350 hardener, usually 3.

    As Kent states, a little tug on the cloth, helps a lot ! A gloved hand on the inside can massage wrinkles, especially on the inside ! It is here I've had the most trouble with wrinkles !

    Jim
     
  11. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    It is also worth noting that cloth management on the inside of the hull, when you get to that point, can also be problematic. The typical problems are bubbles where the saturated fabric won't lie down tight to the wood. The key to remember here is that the bubbles are caused by tension being put on the cloth by your rolling or squeegee use, and that tension is pulling the cloth from the wood. The fix is that cloth moves a bit as you work it and you can eliminate these bubbles by rolling or squeegeeing cloth toward the bubble - easing the tension so that it can lie down into the curve and tightly up against the wood.
     
  12. Michael Duffy

    Michael Duffy canoeist canoe builder

    Not bubbles as there is resin under the glass
    This should be a concern as the glass should be firmly pressed to the hull for maximum strength. This would be caused by pouring the resin and not using enough pressure to evenly spread the resin. The problem would be made worse is you were to tried to move the resin toward a section that already been wet out. Depending on how thick the resin is between the hull and the glass I would sand things down and apply a patch. Getting rid of the excess and the wrinkles.
     
    Jim Dodd likes this.
  13. Mark Heinrich

    Mark Heinrich Curious about Wooden Canoes

    On the outside the squeegee will pull the glass tight and it usually isn't a problem if you work your way out from the middle.

    On the inside that same sweep may float a bubble - stop and use a brush to push/tease the material back with gentle dabs. Pulling on the cloth has cut the corner across a contour so you need to get more cloth back into play.
     

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