Questions regarding restoring this sailing canoe

[Feathers]

I have three questions regarding this Old Town canoe I recently acquired.

One, there are no stickers on any of the sailing gear but, from doing some google research, I think it's Old Town (though later than the canoe which is mid-1920's)? Two, if it is an Old Town rig is there any source for a new sail or do you have to sew one yourself? And three, how to do you remove the rudder attachment (gudgeon?). It seems like I need to just cut it off but then I create a new problem when it's time to reattach if I want it to look it it does now (so I thought I'd ask in case there's some way to avoid that). Thanks for any help.

 

[MGC]

You can post the serial number from your hull here (in the correct category) and learn details about your canoe and if it is indeed an Old Town, as it likely is.
The Gudgeon can be removed by carefully removing those pins.
On this WCHA site, there is a builder/supplier radio button. If you open that up you will find a list of sources for many services/parts related to these old boats. One of them is the go-to for sails. He's in the Finger Lakes and has many years of practical experience dealing with all variety of sailing related things.

Douglas Fowler Sailmaker | WoodenCanoeHeritage

www.woodencanoe.org

That will be a fun canoe/project. A word of cautionary advice. While you are learning to sail it, don't take the dog with you. A dog suddenly hanging over the rail when you are hard heeled will quickly change your trajectory. Swimming one of these old boats back to shore with the sail partly buried in the water will take you a while. The dog will get there long before you do.

 

[Feathers]

The canoe is for sure Old Town shipped in 1926. I was able to find the build sheet as someone requested the number over a decade ago. Thanks for the link on where to look to acquire a sail for it! After I posted this the forum suggested another post from the past regarding how to attach a gudgeon and I see it is a one-time rivet-like thing. So, I'll carefully cut the current pin to remove it (I already have the canvas off the canoe- I just cut it around the gudgeon as I wasn't sure what to do with it). And, as for the dog, my springer loves to canoe and kayak but she isn't much interested in sailing in a canoe. I have a (and this word is probably a little strong for this website when it comes to 1972) vintage 1972 Grumman with a Grumman sail kit. So I have a lot of time in a sailing canoe. Otca (the name of both my dog and this newly acquired canoe) has never looked anxious to join me with the sail flapping above her head.

Thanks for the response!

 

[Benson Gray]

I agree that the canoe and sail rig looks like an Old Town. Canoe sails are reasonably easy to make so any good sail maker can make one for you. Douglas Fowler is a good option as MGC mentioned. The gudgeon pins were hammered in and will need to be carefully drilled out to remove them. Good luck with the project,

Benson

 

[floydvoid]

You might be able to patch holes on the old sail and still use it, unless the cotton has turned really brittle. I have two old cotton sails that I have patched and they work well, though they are old and stained, I enjoy using using them still. I used high thread count cotton bed sheets from LL Bean to sew patches with a home sewing machine that has zig zag setting, and uv rated thread from sailrite.

If you want to open the can of worms, I suggest the main canoe sailing book:

Canoe Rig: The Essence and the Art : Sailpower for Antique and Traditional Canoes - Bradshaw, Todd: 9780937822579 - AbeBooks

You are about to enter a unique world--one of bold, intriguing illustrations and detailed, solid information. It's a world of that will spark your desire to re-examine how the wind might best move your boat. And it will open your eyes to sail and rig configurations you may have never seen. Open ...

www.abebooks.com

 

[floydvoid]

Also the rudder mounts- I have drilled the rivets with some success and then reinstalled them with copper nails cut off an peened over.

I have discovered the magic of a powered oscillating tool and a tiny blade- that may work well to slip between the metal and canvas to cut the pin. You need a steady hand however.

 

[John Sand]

I can confirm that an old beat cotton sail will still draw. I have one that is no stronger than newspaper, but it still sails.
Keep us posted.

 

[Feathers]

I agree that the canoe and sail rig looks like an Old Town. Canoe sails are reasonably easy to make so any good sail maker can make one for you. Douglas Fowler is a good option as MGC mentioned. The gudgeon pins were hammered in and will need to be carefully drilled out to remove them. Good luck with the project,

Benson

Thanks!

 

[Feathers]

You might be able to patch holes on the old sail and still use it, unless the cotton has turned really brittle. I have two old cotton sails that I have patched and they work well, though they are old and stained, I enjoy using using them still. I used high thread count cotton bed sheets from LL Bean to sew patches with a home sewing machine that has zig zag setting, and uv rated thread from sailrite.

If you want to open the can of worms, I suggest the main canoe sailing book:

Canoe Rig: The Essence and the Art : Sailpower for Antique and Traditional Canoes - Bradshaw, Todd: 9780937822579 - AbeBooks

You are about to enter a unique world--one of bold, intriguing illustrations and detailed, solid information. It's a world of that will spark your desire to re-examine how the wind might best move your boat. And it will open your eyes to sail and rig configurations you may have never seen. Open ...

www.abebooks.com

When I first saw photos of this canoe I thought I might be able to put it on the water a few times for fun before I pulled the cavas. But, upon picking up the canoe and looking at the bottom-...big 11" gash right through to the planking on the bottom. If I could have floated it I would have tried the old sail though- as you can see from the photos- it's in pretty rough shape. But since it was clear it wasn't going to float again until it has been restored I removed the old (and really, really heavy (fiberglass or bondo over the top) canvas the next day. So, now it will be a while before it will see the water again. I'll use that time to try to come up with a new sail. Thanks for the link on the canoe sailing book, I'd never heard of it. I'll check it out.

 

[Feathers]

Also the rudder mounts- I have drilled the rivets with some success and then reinstalled them with copper nails cut off an peened over.

I have discovered the magic of a powered oscillating tool and a tiny blade- that may work well to slip between the metal and canvas to cut the pin. You need a steady hand however.

I have one of those oscillating tools. I won't get back to the canoe for a few days but I'll have that as one of the tools in the quiver when I attempt removal.

 

[Feathers]

I can confirm that an old beat cotton sail will still draw. I have one that is no stronger than newspaper, but it still sails.
Keep us posted.

That is a good description for this sail also "no stronger than newspaper".