Old Town building mold consistency

[patrick corry]

I wonder if those among you who have more familiarity with Old Town canoe molds may have an opinion on this? I have two Old Town 50# canoes I would like to restore. The oldest, from 1927 needs a ton of work due to having been painted inside variously green, red, orange, white, and blue over the years, but I don't think it has any broken ribs and minimal planking repairs needed! The second canoe, from 1938, has many broken ribs (and lots of damaged planking)... probably at least 12 amidships. The shape of the canoe on one side has been lost and replacing so many in one place may cause me to alter the shape if I'm not careful.

My thought was to steam bend new ribs for the 1938 canoe over the intact hull of the 1927 canoe. I'll of course do only a few at a time, and not in the same locations each time so as to maintain shape.

So, my question of you who have more Old Town experience is: do you suppose the molds for 50# canoes, made 11 years apart, were consistent in shape & dimension so that my plan will likely work? Surely the factory had many molds but presumably they were made to the same dimensions, or reasonably so.

1927 canoe:

1938 canoe:

 

[Dave Osborn]

The molds could have been different to an extent. Also the canoes could have ”relaxed” differently over the years.
It’s something you could try, for sure.
If your plan doesn’t work, you could start by bending the outer most ribs and work toward the middle. I would suggest adding temporary battens to help fortify and determine how much bend the ribs need.

 

[Benson Gray]

do you suppose the molds for 50# canoes, made 11 years apart, were consistent in shape & dimension

Yes, but it is highly likely that the ribs in your two canoes have different shapes now as Dave mentioned. The restoration of my Otca from 1936 required new outside stems on both ends. I'm sure that all of the original stems were made on the same forms but the restoration required different forms for the bow and stern since these were significantly different shapes after more than seventy years of use and "relaxation." I would encourage you to bend your replacement ribs over the other end of the existing canoe (or a mirrored form made from the good side).

An original form for this model is currently at Island Falls Canoe as described at the link below. You could contact them to see if they would be willing to bend the ribs you need and mail them to you. However, these ribs still might not be an exact match for the current state of your canoe. Let us know what you decide and how it goes. Good luck,

Benson

Island Falls Canoe - Custom Made Wood and Canvas Canoes - Old Town Wood Canoe Parts & Materials

Island Falls Canoe - Maine made custom built canoes, canoe restoration, canoe repair, and canoe building classes. We also carry Old Town Wood Canoe parts and materials and we perform repairs on wooden Old Town Canoes.

www.islandfallscanoe.com

 

[MGC]

I think you will find that close enough is going to be good enough. There is enough give in shaped ribs that you will be able to tweak them to fit even if they are not exactly formed. Think about it. You have probably already done this when you shaped a rib on the outside of the hull, brought it into position to find that it was not as well formed as you had hoped. What did you do? You pulled, pushed and clamped it in so that it worked and then tacked it in place to hold it.
WRT the forms....I think there is always some variability. The way you build, steaming, bending, shaping, masks that. Unless it is not well fared, you will probably never notice it.
And, as Benson notes, I have also experienced major stem variation within some canoes. For an Indian Girl, the form I made for the stems had to be totally re-shaped to do the second stem.... Had I used an identical stem I would have had to re-plank the entire bow end to make it fit the existing shape. I had a similar experience with a torpedo stem Brown. The stems were wildly different. On that boat I suspect that stems had been shaped on a standard form and the outside stems had been done on the canoe...

 

[Gil Cramer]

I would use the other end of the canoe into which the ribs are going to be installed. Measure the beam across the outside of the inwale where the rib will be installed, then bend the new rib around the spot on the other end which has the same beam outside the planking and rib. Allow the rib to dry at least overnight with enough weight on it to keep it tight to the hull. The rib will fit almost perfectly.

The ends are more difficult because the shape changes more quickly. I would place the new rib closer to end of the canoe to make a better fit.

 

[patrick corry]

Today I took a closer look at the shape of the 1938 canoe, the one with all the broken ribs. And, looking at the photo it's clear that the canoe has retained it's shape aft of the center (temporary) thwart- that's the left side of the canoe in the second photo of 1938. As Gil suggests I should be able to bend ribs aft of the thwart and install them forward. At least then I'll have symmetry on both sides of center, regardless of how the canoe has relaxed over time! Similarly, to bend replacement ribs for the aft end (where the huge hole is), I should be able to bend replacements over the forward end.

The inwales are a bit of a mystery too. The build record indicates (3) 3" thwarts rather than seats, and one side has the impressions of diamond head bolts- but not in 3 locations- while the other does not have any. The one without also has screw holes in the inner face so I'm assuming it was a repair, screwed into the outwale through the ribs & planking. That inwale has a hard spot at the forward quarter which may be problematic to get rid of so a new replacement may be in order.

 

[patrick corry]

 

[MGC]

Not Gils first clambake.

 

[floydvoid]

Have you watched Jim Clearwater’s Restoring a Burn Pile Rushton? He has good techniques for reshaping a boat this is crushed or way out of shape. He uses a special curve template and makes custom supports to help pull it into shape.

 

[patrick corry]

Have you watched Jim Clearwater’s Restoring a Burn Pile Rushton?

Thanks for reminding me! Yes, I have seen the video before and while appreciating the effort involved, I sort of dismissed it at the time thinking,
"why would I ever want to rebuild a canoe this damaged"... well, maybe that time has come. I will watch again with refreshed eyes this time!