Varnish

techrtr

Curious about Wooden Canoes
I'm in the process of rebuilding a canoe and will soon be at the varnish stage. My plan is to remove all of the flaking varnish but maybe not strip the entire canoe right now to bare wood. Lots of people recommend applying linseed oil to the wood before applying vanish. Can linseed oil be applied to areas that still have varnish on them or could that cause problems when I apply the varnish?

Bruce
 
I’m thinking Todd Bradshaw will chime in here, but from his posts and my experiences I’m 100% convinced that linseed oil should not be used on anything. Specifically I have used very diluted linseed oil on a packbasket and a canoe pole and it turned black and gummy in a few years. We’ve covered this before in the forum and Todd has the true gospel on this.
 
I don't know if it's gospel, and some folks use a lot of the stuff and love it, but I stopped using linseed oil a long time ago. My reasons were unpredictable drying times (some of them very long before you could do any other work or use the item), the eventual black yuck that often happened to oiled items, and finally a research paper I once read from the Forest Products Lab that claimed that linseed oil made really good food for the little micro-critters (spores or whatever they are) that cause wood to rot. If I want an oiled finish I use either Decks Olje #1 or Watco Oil, which dry predictably and don't turn black. There are certainly a lot of finishing products out there that contain a certain amount of linseed oil and work just fine, but in my opinion just slathering a piece of wood with either raw or boiled (it's not really boiled, but has drying agents added) linseed oil may not be making anything better.

Oiling before varnishing has rather questionable merits. If it's being done to try to bring life back into an old, dried-out piece of wood, it's pretty much fantasy. The color may certainly look a bit better, but most folks have a very unrealistic idea of how far oil (or varnish, or epoxy, or even water) actually soaks in when applied to the surface of a piece of wood. The vast majority of a freshly oiled piece of wood is unchanged, and any benefits will likely be just at the surface. You can oil, varnish, seal or coat a hunk of cedar with as many coats as you want of anything you want, but in five seconds with a sander I can be down to raw, untreated wood.

If oiling is being done to seal better or make the varnish stick better, it really doesn't need it and it may not be helping. Areas that your varnish was intended to stick to may already be filled with oil - and if it's linseed, that oil may be soft and sticky for a month or more. I'd rather start with clean, dry wood and thin the first coat of varnish. Old Town used to say they thinned the first coat 50/50 and then went to straight varnish for the remaining coats. I can't really see a reason to reinvent the wheel and do something different.

I usually attempt to get the job done with just as few products and chemicals as possible. This probably comes from all my work with epoxy, where chemical contamination can make for a really nasty, expensive mess that's seriously hard to clean up. For just varnish, if I can get a nice finish with nothing more than the varnish and a little bit of thinner, that's what I'll do.
 
I'm in the process of rebuilding a canoe and will soon be at the varnish stage. My plan is to remove all of the flaking varnish but maybe not strip the entire canoe right now to bare wood. Lots of people recommend applying linseed oil to the wood before applying vanish.

Bruce

If the canvas is off strip it and do it right. Once you put it back together it could be years before you tackle the job again and have the opportunity to properly refurbish the interior. If it's strictly varnish removal it's not such a bad job to do. If you commit one day to it you can remove the old varnish, tsp and teak nu it and have it ready for a quick sand. After you put a few coats of varnish on it you'll be happy with your decision. The finish will be consistent throughout and it will hold up forever if you keep after it. If you patch varnish it will look blotched and like it needs to be refinished. You will be kicking yourself and wishing that you had done it while you had the chance. That will happen every time that you sit in it to paddle it...I guarantee. Otherwise you will admire it every time you paddle and pat yourself on the back for spending the extra few hours to do the entire job. Use good varnish! I recommend Epifane but I used a can of Z Spar Captains this morning and liked the way it went on.

I second Larry's recommendation not to use linseed oil inside your canoe. I also have had horrible results with it. It turns black over time. I have put two coats of shellac inside a newly restored (Rushton) canoe. I applied 6 coats of varnish over the top of that. If you do use linseed oil then the trick to using it as a quasi finish is to mix it with turpentine, about 50/50. The turpentine will help it to harden up a bit. I am not recommending this but if you go down that path this is what you might try.

On the outside of the hull the bible says to apply heated boiled linseed oil. I mix boiled linseed oil, turpentine and mineral spirits to apply to the outside of my hulls. I heat it (very carefully) and apply it while it's warm. It soaks in like crazy and then hardens up. I know that others add japan drier to a mix of linseed oil and turpentine, some varnish the hulls or apply tung oil....lot's of choices!
Good luck...
 
If some of the varnish is flaking, it is all bad. Chemically strip the interior. Better yet, have someone else do it. You won't regret it.
 
Hey, thanks for the info everyone. I'm going to go with straight varnish, thin the first coat and then apply several more. I prefer to follow the kiss principle anyway.
 
Once you have chosen your varnish, the best thing to do is follow the instructions on the can. Sand with the recommended grits, use the recommended thinner (even if it is proprietary), and follow the recommended thinning schedule. I happen to have Epifanes varnish in the shop right now. I use their brush thinner, and the recommended thinning schedule is to thin 50% first coat, 25% second coat, 15% third coat and 0-5% subsequently.

BTW, the same goes for paint (following the directions, that is).
 
tech,
Sounds like the varnish in your canoe currently is not good.
You didn't mention that you will be stripping the old flaking varnish, so....
A word to the wise.... You're last coat of varnish is only as good as the first.

Spend your time making it right the first time, not re doing it in a couple of more years.... If not, you will wish you had.
Pass up the hardware store variety of "spar" varnish. Buy quality marine varnish. More expensive...yes. If you don't care...buy the cheap stuff.
I use, as Dan mentions, Epifanes. There are others, too. Check out marine varnishes at www.jamestowndistributors.com.
 
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