Table saws

L

Larry Meyer

Wooden Canoes are in the Blood
I assume many of you use table saws.

Here in Mass a man has just won a $1.5 million judgment in which he claimed a table saw maker was negligent for not equipping the saw with “flesh detection” technology.
“Flesh detection” technology is where the saw blade is so made if it detects flesh (like your finger) the blade is instantly braked, thus preventing injury.

I saw (watched?) a show where a table saw with the technology was demonstrated. Impressive, but to my mind, strictly a customer’s choice. When I saw the show, I wondered, “how long before this becomes mandatory?” One side effect of the braking action is that the blade is ruined in the process.

Really this sort of thing is getting silly.
 
I believe that technology is protected by patent, so it's a feature exclusive to the one brand, Saw Stop. So should we then ban all other table saw brands, until the patent expires? And does it apply to any other type of circular saw as well, like hand-held saws, and chop saws?

So if this technology is so important to him, why didn't the bonehead buy a saw with that technology? Isn't this negligence on his own part?

I'm really sorry to hear of such a judgment. It reminds me of the one several years ago, when some knucklehead went after the lawn mower manufacturer, because they had no labelling indicating that he should not pick it up by the mowing deck and use it as a hedge trimmer...
 
The thing of it is, when the Sawstop technology was first conceived, it was pitched to all the saw manufacturers. Apparently, it was too costly to redesign a Unisaw, Powermatic 66, Xactasaw, etc. to accept the technology, and so it was rejected out of hand. Sawstop designed it's own saw to bring this technology into the market place. They have an outstanding saw, well built, with a nice fence, and it has the added feature of not biting a finger off 'if used properly". I do not own a Sawstop, have lost the tip of a finger to a tablesaw, and am perfectly content with my 5hp Xactasaw. But, there is always soem jury that will award gross stupidity with money. (remember McDonalds coffee?) And, it was gross stupidity on my part that cost me the tip of my finger.
 
Mark

That’s some interesting history. I wondered if the inventor of the technology might be behind all this. Getting suits brought (there are 25 such suits apparently) to force the technology on the other manufacturers.

Plainly every tablesaw manufacturer must now deal with the fact that this has spawned oodles of liability onto them.
 
What the heck is going on in good old Massachusetts? See Fitz's post under Issues and Politics about a Kayak Safety Law, I recently read that the MASS legislators were considering a ban on circumcision and now a judge rules in favor of a plaintiff because he couldn't keep his pinkies out of his table saw?????

Wow!!!!
 
This was one of 50 (I misremembered the number) such suits now pending and was tried in a US District Court that happened to be in Massachusetts. So it’s a product liability suit governed by Federal law, not Massachusetts’s laws.

Now if Massachusetts wants to propose banning circumcisions using a table saw, I would tend to favor that.
 
Made smoke come out of my Craftsman table saw this weekend ripping WRC 4x4, can i sue someone? Perhaps the manufacturer of my bandsaw for not equipping it with enuf power.
 
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You laugh?

Hey there are really specific stupid things that people do that should be explicitly banned, such as using bullets for car fuzzes, as the following true story about the winners of the annual Darwin Award shows

(The Darwins are awarded every year to the persons who died in the stupidest manner, thereby removing themselves from the gene pool.)
>>

THE WINNER!!!: (Arkansas Democrat Gazette):

Two local men were injured when their pickup truck left the road and struck a tree near Cotton Patch on State Highway 38 early Monday.

Woodruff County deputy Dovey Snyder reported the accident shortly after midnight Monday.

Thurston Poole, 33, of Des Arc, and Billy Ray Wallis, 38, of Little Rock, were returning to Des Arc after a frog catching trip. On an overcast Sunday night, Pooles pickup truck headlights malfunctioned. The two men concluded that the headlight fuse on the older-model truck had burned out.

As a replacement fuse was not available, Wallis noticed that the 22 caliber bullets from his pistol fit perfectly into the fuse box next to the steering- wheel column. Upon inserting the bullet the headlights again began to operate properly, and the two men proceeded on eastbound toward the White River Bridge.

After traveling approximately 20 miles, and just before crossing the river, the bullet apparently overheated, discharged, and struck Poole in the testicles. The vehicle swerved sharply right, exiting the pavement, and striking a tree. Poole suffered only minor cuts and abrasions from the accident but will require extensive surgery to repair the damage to his testicles, which will never operate as intended.

Wallis sustained a broken clavicle and was treated and released. "Thank God we weren't on that bridge when Thurston shot his n**s off, or we might both be dead,” stated Wallis.

"I've been a trooper for 10 years in this part of the world, but this is a first for me. I can't believe that those two would admit how this accident happened," said Snyder. Upon being notified of the wreck, Lavinia (Poole's wife), asked how many frogs the boys had caught and did anyone get them from the truck. Priorities, after all!!

Though Poole and Wallis did not die as a result of their misadventure as normally required by Darwin Award Official Rules, it can be argued that Poole did, in fact, effectively remove himself from the gene pool.
 
So this guy should be able to sue the truck manufacturer for making the fuse mount the right size for a .22 shell, and the shell manufacturer for manufacturing shells that discharge when heated... yeah, that should do it... I wonder how much & how many recreational drugs were involved?
 
Back on topic, I still have to ask, if the technology was so important to the guy running the table saw, why was he using one that lacked it?

And was he using the safety features that were available with the saw?

Sorry to un-hijkack the thread; these things frost me...
 
Larry Meyer said:
....propose banning circumcisions using a table saw, I would tend to favor that.
Click to expand...

That is funny Larry....but I'm not sure how to comment on the bullet used as a fuse LOL LOL. All I can add is I guess there are some knuckleheads out who must love Jerry Lee Lewis's tune "Great B***s Of Fire"....or maybe "Froggy Went A Courting".
 
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This is terrible and good at the same time.

I wonder if sueing was his idea or the lawyer's?

This sets a terrible precident. I wonder how it will ultimately impact the machinery market/designs? They may have to come up with their own designs to offer similar protection.

And thinking on, maybe throw away "table saws", ie, those junk portable ones with intragal motor that you can't sell used for $50. :)

As for the good, the liability concern is already causing shop owners to part with the older/other brands and replace them with the Saw-Stop machines. The good being that you can get a nice Uni for not a whole lot of money these days, and the larger industrial machines are also cheap.

Dan
 
There’s a good bit of attention on this in industry circles. See http://www.protoolreviews.com/news/editorials/bosch-tools-sawstop-lawsuit.

The sequence of events seems 1. a guy invented the flesh detection technology, 2. he attempted to get the industry to accept it as a industry standard, 3. the industry rejected that idea, 4. he started producing his own table saw, and 5. he did not give up on getting the whole industry to use it.

It seems logical that the lawsuits (50 of them!) were the next cohersive step in the pressure campaign. I just don’t see 50 suits getting filed spontaneously by 50 aggrieved and maimed occasional table saw users.

Of course if altruism was the inventor’s motive, he could give up the right to royalties from the patent.
 
The SAW STOP is a well made saw, however there are better saws.

The price of these saws reflects the cost of the patent as well as the cost of potential failures and resultant legal and medical costs. Therefore the saw is of a quality not all that different from lesser expensive saws.

I have considered one, the more expensive of the two, but here again, there are better saws.

So, the choice is a better saw and be careful, or the SAW STOP and "potentially" let your guard down with the false confidence of the
flesh detector.

I have not made that decision as yet.

I live in Oregon where the SAW STOP is manufacturered. They are common here in many stores.

I disagree with the judges decision. Does that mean that any vehicle that was not equipped with air bags at a time when they are available also make the manufacturer liable ? I see this as an absurd decision that could also have been put back onto the injured saw user..
He also had a choice, he could have bought a saw with the technology and chose not to???

Once again, it is everyone else's fault but our own.. do we not have the primary responsibility for ourselves ?

I too, have damaged some digits with machinery. I bit the bullet, got repaired and held no one else to account for my carelessness. Had there been an actual defect in the product, that would have been another issue.
 
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Somehow I don't think I can convert my 1946 delta with a table top that tilts (not the Blade) to this new technology. Oh yea, and I cant afford the new one. Guess I'll have to keep my fingers out of the blade...
 
Al,

You're using a Delta tilty in your business shop? I've never heard of someone (pro woodworker) doing that. (Not that that means much)

I had one a few years ago, along with a parts machine, but decided that I'd probably never use it (got 2 10" contractors and a Uni) and sold it to another collector.

Dan
 
I owned an INCA model 259 with all the toys.
Contrary to the claims of "accuracy" , it simply was not. Also, it was a lightweight suitable as a
hobby/model makers/ doll house makers saw.

The Tilt table was annoying. And if not bolted the floor or weighted down it was tippy an dangerous.

I am going to look at the SAW STOP again this coming week and compare it to a POWERMATIC and a DELTA specifically the mechanics of the units.

I suspect there will be a retro fit available in the future..
or otherwise based on the results of the lawsuit.. no manufacturer would risk
the vulnerability.. that or increase the price of the machines as a hedge against legal action.
 
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