Sn: 46310 17

Freakshow

Curious about Wooden Canoes
This is my first wood canoe and I am very excited. I did not pay much for it at all and the folks I bought it from didn't know much about it. He bought it used in the early 70s in Halifax PA. Always stored it inside and was still using it occasionally. It had obviously been repaired and glassed before he bought it. He seemed to think it was pretty old when he bought it.

He didn't know the brand and it had no decals. The decks had been painted an ivory and the fiber glass had been painted an aqua marine.

Features: 17' length, beam is 34 1/2" seats, gunwales, thwarts, trim etc seem to all be mahogany. The SN appears on both stems. It also has half ribs. I thought it might be a Penn Yan until I found the SN. 46310 17 . Now I have no idea.




Can anyone help me identify this canoe and point me towards more information about it. I love to do research. Thanks.
 

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If your canoe is an Old Town (as it well may be), the Old Town canoe with serial number 46310 is a 17 foot long, AA (top) grade Otca model with western red cedar planking, open spruce gunwales, Mahogany seats, decks and thwarts, was equipped with half ribs, outside stems, and a keel. It was built between November 1916 and March 1917. The original exterior paint color was black, with a two inch jointed white stripe edged with gold. It was shipped to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania on March 31, 1917. A scan of this build record can be found by following the link behind the thumbnail image attached below; the original paint seems to be OT's design no. 3.

46310 - 30073.jpg design03.gif

This scan and several hundred thousand others were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to join.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Though AA grade OT canoes usually have mahogany gunwales, the build record here specifies spruce gunwales. If this is your canoe, your gunwales may have been stained, or if they are mahogany, they may be replacements. A lot can happen to a canoe in nearly a hundred years, and changes are frequently made when a canvas canoe is glassed. Does your canoe have wood outside stems, like this:

cr 100_1157.jpg

Photos of your canoe would help confirm identification -- decks, stem, full profile, seats, and anything else that might seem useful.

Greg Nolan
 
Absolutely amazing! You are dead on. I bought it in Carlisle PA just outside Harrisburg PA. The gunwales are heavily stained to match the mahogany color of the thwarts, seats et al. And appear to be a different wood. Planks are definitely red cedar. Outside wood stems and keel, check. I just added a few quick picks to the original post. They are not great but I will get a few more when I have stands to sit the boat on or it ever stops raining and I can take it outside.

Thank you so much.
 
It looks like we got the right build record. A nice canoe, and from those photos, it looks to be in pretty good shape. We will be interested to see more pictures. I'm guessing from the photo above that the forward thwart is not original? Is the glass in good shape? Will you be using it as is, or doing any refinishing/repairing/repainting?

Anyway, good luck with it.

Greg
 
Advice on this Canoe

I need some advice on what to do with this canoe!

When I bought this canoe I was planning to use it for an occasional nostalgic paddle. That was when I thought it was built in the 50s or 60s and had no idea of the brand. It had been glassed but the wood looked great and I only paid a few hundred for it.I have been reading posts on this forum like a mad man and get it, "canvas good, fiberglass bad". This canoe that I have was glassed in the 60s or 70s.


Now knowing what I know, it's a Old Town Otca 1916-17 and we have the build record for it I. Want to make good decisions for the canoe's sake.


The condition: the wood is in good shape. The bow and stern have been modified. I noticed this when I bought it but wasn't sure what I was looking at. Now that I know the model I know that the bow and stern should rise higher and curve in. I am not sure what that is called? The ends were apparently shaved down and the gunwales and decks were modified to accommodate. It looks more like a OT Guide model. It was a good job probably completed when the canoe was glassed pre-70s. I am confident if it were restored that the ribs and stems could be spliced to return it to the proper shape. The overall wood is in great shape with a few minor repairs that I could find. The glass job appears to be one of those thick slathered jobs. The person I bought it from says that it hasn't been painted since the 70s. The wood could use a light sanding, oiling and revarnish. The keel/ outer stem needs to have the brass replaced at the ends where it was broken off.

What I want to do with it: I would like to use it for the occasional paddle. I would like to fix it up a bit and enjoy it on the lake we live on and share its beauty with my boys and others. I would also like to use it as a gateway drug to buying and restoring other wood canoes as I learn about the process.

I may eventually want to fully restore it or have it restored.

My questions are:
How rare is this canoe?
What are the draw backs of leaving it in the fiberglass for now?
If I leave it in the fiberglass, what should I do to fix up the canoe?
Anything I should absolutely avoid doing?
Any good threads here concerning my situation you would recommend?
What would you do with this canoe?

Any opinions or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
 
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If it can be paddled as is, or with minor repairs, keep it as is until you're ready for a big restoration job. There are plenty of other boats out there that are much newer, and need much less work (i.e., don't need to strip the fiberglass) than this one; find one that'll be easier to restore for your first effort.

There are a lot of Old Towns out there, but not so many that are at 97 or 98 years young, so it's worth saving.

That's my halfpenny's worth...
 
First -- don't be in any rush -- Do what little may be needed to use the canoe this season or even two or three seasons, while considering what you might want to do in the longer run. Repair the bang strips, and touch up the varnish -- don't put any more on than necessary, because it will just have to come off when the canoe is restored. If you don't like the current color and the paint is sound and not flaking off, a new coat of exterior paint is quick and easy.

After that, before making any decision about how to repair or restore your canoe, you would do well also to get, or at least look at -- "The Wood and Canvas Canoe: A Complete Guide to its History, Construction, Restoration, and Maintenance" by Rollin Thurlow and Jerry Stelmok, and/or "Building the Maine Guide Canoe" by Jerry Stelmok, and you might want to look at "The Old Town Canoe Company" by Susan Audette and David Baker. The first is often called the "bible" of canoe repair, restoration, and maintenance; the second is an excellent study of the wooden/canvas canoe and its construction, and the third is a great history of the company and its canoes.

I believe that the Otca model was introduced in 1908, so there are a lot of them out there, but not so many as old as this. The question of whether to restore it to its original lies is not an easy one. From what you have said about the condition of the wood, restoring it with its current sheer and stem lines is probably pretty easy (after the fiberglass is off). Restoring it to its original lines would be quite a bit more work and present some problems -- splicing new wood onto the gunwales is not too hard, but matching the color of old stained wood can be problematic -- restoring the original lines may not be worth the trouble. One reason to use the canoe for at least a season is to see if its current shape causes any difficulties. I would not expect it to, so whether to restore the original lines is largely a matter of esthetics and personal taste. The canoe is not so rare that it would be some sort of sacrilege to leave the shape as it is -- if you like it as it is.

Also, in addition to asking question here on the forums, Wooden Canoe, our journal, has a wealth of information in its back issues. There is an index to the back issues -- http://www.wcha.org/journal/Index to Wooden Canoe.pdf -- and back issues are available for $4 through the online store, or the collection is available on a USB flash drive through the store -- http://store.wcha.org/Wooden-Canoe-Journal-Archive-on-CD-ROM.html

Don’t be bashful about asking questions here – we all do it, and those with knowledge are generous with their suggestions.

As to what I would do -- see http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=5790 for what I did for five years with a canoe that I just took the canvas off to start a complete restoration. And I would remove the glass and recover with canvas, though not immediately.

And don’t forget pictures as you go along – indeed, I'm now curious to see profile shots showing the current sheer line and stem/deck curves -- and in any event, we all love pictures.

Greg
 
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Thanks Greg. Sound advice. When I was a teenager I got into restoring old cars and some of the same ideas apply. Get it running, looking good and drive it for a while as a daily driver before going all out and restoring it.

I am also in the hobby of reef tanks and I caution folks all the time that are new to the hobby to " not rush things". "Take your time, ask questions, learn, get a couple good books and take it slow." I am glad to hear the same advice here.

As soon as our weather clears here and I can make up some cradles I will get some good pictures posted. Is there a better place in this forum now to continue this kind of thread for advice?

Thanks.
 
I can't imagine where you guys get all these awesome pieces of history. The more I see, the more I want to find one for myself and catch the "fever". I hope you enjoy the canoe ( I would want to take it out just as it is to see how it runs).
Lots of luck and congratulations.
steve
 
Where do we get them? Well, once people know you have one, more will start following you home.

At Canoecopia (Madison, WI) last month, we had a couple people come into the WCHA booth with pictures on their phones of wooden canoes they were looking to find good homes for.
 
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