She floats but leaks a survey does your all wood canoe leak?

[alick burt]

Hello folks
Having completed Felix's Canoe see "a find in the UK" I took her for a paddle and she leaked.It wasn't enough to cause alarm and was easily dealt with using a sponge but it got me thinking.
Is this always going to be the case or will it be cured with more paddling soaking the planking and further coats of varnish or will it be a permanent condition?
So how many of you have an all wood canoe that doesn't leak at all? Do they always leak some of the time or is a truly leak free boat a possibility (Excluding epoxy covered creations of course!)

Please respond to the poll I think this could be interesting

Many Thanks

Alick

 

[samb]

I look forward to seeing your sponging technique develop so that you can sponge and squeeze with the same grace and style as I do. I was thinking of running master classes but couldn't find people whose boat leaked properly!!

Sam

 

[alick burt]

Ho!Ho!
I have perfected the j stroke sponge squeeze combo but I have given her three more coats of varnish on the outside since her last outing and she will have one more beforeI leave her to set till Beale Park.
Alick

 

[Etienne-Henri]

Alick,
Just my experience. Some people must know much more than I do.
My two all woods canoes leak. That is my (apparently) nicely preserved mahogany canoe leaks badly while my ash and spruce battered canoe leaks slightly.
I mean I am not sure the combination of such different species in your Thomas Gordon canoe is the smartest option conservation wise. Just a thought.
Besides, those old canoes have seen many years of use and cycles moistening > drying > moistening again > drying again, etc. which has altered the inner characteristics and qualities of the wood with the resulting alteration of the initially superb adjustment of the planking. The way the hull was wetted for waterproofing may have been irrelevant in the past, resulting in a growing and definitive although invisible damage. Although it may be useful for some other reasons, I am not convinced some more varnish will ever help - at first because varnish will not have the flexibility to deal with the planking movements and distention. Some builders used calker of some type, which has altered for years and years of use, and of course can not be replaced in situ. This has motivated some people to use modern calkers with very questionable results.
I just accept my canoes as they are - OLD. I prepare them with moistening the hull with wet fabrics for a few hours. I never fill them with water as some people do, as I believe it does distort the hull. I never let them in the sun. "only used at rainy fall evenings".
Just a question : how did you prepare the wood for varnishing ? Which varnish did you use ?
Etienne-Henri

 

[Treewater]

Here's a wide board canoe last fall. It had been a decorator piece in a house for 20 plus years. Very dry. I was out over a week. Keel leaked badly. I used gutter sealant, (white) two spray cans, and slowed the leak dramatically. As you see, I also put gorilla tape on the seams. No leaks there. I was eventually able to go out several hours and only get minimal leaking that I never bothered to bail (had no sponge).

 

[alick burt]

Hi Etienne-Henri
I stripped the hull chemically,followed with teak cleaner,then minimal sanding and more chemical stripper,then I coated with boat soup.(Pure Turps,Tung oil and wood preservative 1/3 each).Left it for a few weeks then applied a rubbed coat of tung oil as a precoat.Then began varnishing started with thinned varnish.Then worked up to 9 coats inside and out with more time between some of the later coats up to three days.Then I tested her.First test revealed a leak around the stem at one end so once she was dry I poured varnish inside.It leaked out so I repeated over four days till it stopped.Then I left it to dry for a week or more.Second test was last Sunday.Have now given four more coats on the outside.
Varnish is Flag Yacht varnish a UK brand which their technical rep assured me is very similar make up to epiphanes (once he had compared data sheets).I asked him to do so before trusting it to this old canoe ! and I use it regularly on my wood strippers with good results.
I take your point about the age and movement of the wood especially around all the thousands of tacks and joints in the planking.

Thanks

Alick

 

[alick burt]

Hi Treewater
Nice Canoe,
Do you think the wide board canoes are more susceptible to leaks than narrower planked strip boats?
Thanks
Alick

 

[Treewater]

Don't know. I've never had a narrow plank. Obviously the wide board had issues. They tried metallic battens but I don't know it they really worked. BTW, thanks for doing a survey. I thought I was the only one with a leaky boat.

 

[alick burt]

I'm thinking wider boards must have more movement because of the bigger distance between fixings allowing less room for movement as there are fewer gaps.So on a strip boat the gaps would be more in quantity but less wide on each gap...
I'm sure there are plenty of leaky boats out there I would be interested to see if there are any that are totally leak free without any tape or fixes other than good ol varnish

 

[Gil Cramer]

I usually guarantee Peterborough style cedar strip canoes to leak after restoration. I do use lots and lots of varnish, and mix wood flour with varnish to fill any missing laps or holes . One customer called to report that the canoe did not leak so I told him to bring it back and I would drill a hole in it. The one I have for sale now and the one I sold this month were listed as decorators because of their ages.
Peterborough claimed their cedar strip canoes would last 30 years. Many of these are 3 or more times that old, and they are still good canoes.

 

[Benson Gray]

Well, Mr. Denis St. Bernard would be shocked to hear these complaints about all wood canoes. He wrote an article titled "Hints for Choosing a Canoe" in the April 26th, 1900 edition of "The Youth's Companion" that said "canvas is not , in the opinion of many canoemen, a desirable material for covering a canoe." He closed the article by saying that "if one chooses a canoe sixteen feet long by thirty inches wide by twelve inches deep, built of cedar or basswood, smoothskin, and with or without tumblehome, he cannot go far wrong."

Benson

 

[Treewater]

One customer called to report that the canoe did not leak so I told him to bring it back and I would drill a hole in it.

I love it!! I also feel much better with every post. As to the historical ideas.....we all know birch-bark leaked. So what was the big deal? So the all wood canoe leaked a little? If you don't want to get wet, stay on the shore. People today are so soft.

 

[samb]

I think many don't appreciate the grace, skill and dexterity involved in the use of a sponge.

Sam

 

[Etienne-Henri]

Well, Mr. Denis St. Bernard would be shocked to hear these complaints about all wood canoes. " He cannot go far wrong."

Benson

Benson,
I am certainly not complaining ... and do not consider to be so far wrong. Well I am only talking about my wooden canoes ...

Etienne-Henri.

 

[Etienne-Henri]

Alick,

Thank you for those details about preparation and varnishing. Close to what I do, except I apply shellac before varnishing.

Etienne-Henri

 

[alick burt]

here's a little update on Felix's Canoe.
Last weekend Itook her to Beale Park Boat Show. To begin with the first time I took her out she leaked a little around the stem that I didn't do the varnish pouring around on!
However after a day on and off the water the leaking stopped and the following morning as I paddled out in the mist she was leak free.Over the weekend she was paddled on and off by myself and others and when I have dried her out again my plan is to do a varnish pour around the other stem and give her a coat on the underside for luck in preparation for her next outing.Here are a few pictures from the weekend where there were also other wooden canoes to enjoy.

Nick's Skiff (covered left) Felix's Canoe (centre) Dabchick (my latest wood strip creation)

The owner of this one (below)said it was from around 1910 and it has Canadian Canoe Co tags. I think it looks very much like the Sunnyside Cruiser illustrated in Ted Moores Canoecraft book which I have made a woodstrip version of.

Sam's wide board canoe "June"

Nick's Chestnut.

Sam in Felix's Canoe with me taking the picture from Dabchick.

Cheers

Alick

 

[alick burt]

A few weeks of drying later and I have started pouring varnish around the second stem.Read all about it here.https://www.woodencanoes.uk/single-post/2017/06/29/Felixs-Canoe-Sealing-the-second-stem

If I can my goal is to get her leak free.Not because I am worried about a little water in the boat, far from it but more because I want to get the planking to a stage where it is not expanding and crushing the fibres every time she goes in the water.

Cheers

Alick

 

[mccloud]

Alick, RE: the canoe that you refer to as Felix's - are those decks one piece of wood? What kind of wood? Are they old or part of a restoration? What are the dimensions? Are they flat, or carved so there is a crown on top and cove underneath? If a cove, are there braces underneath? Just curious. Mighty pretty pictures, Tom McCloud

 

[alick burt]

Alick, RE: the canoe that you refer to as Felix's - are those decks one piece of wood? What kind of wood? Are they old or part of a restoration? What are the dimensions? Are they flat, or carved so there is a crown on top and cove underneath? If a cove, are there braces underneath? Just curious. Mighty pretty pictures, Tom McCloud

Hi Mccloud
They are the original one piece decks in butternut.(I think).They were very lightweight and soft particularly on the tips and edges when I stripped them but have firmed up a bit with applications of stabiliser and varnish
They are very thin ( in places down to less than half an inch) and cambered.
Cheers
Alick

 

[Graham]

I took the Lakefield out for a paddle tonight, and no leaks after an hour, I was pleasantly surprised. No load though so she was sitting very high.
What did surprise me was that the thwart is not in the center, but set back a foot. Good for solo paddling from the center, but hard to carry!
I did put 2 coats of varnish on her last year and WCHA member Colin's wife re-caned the seats for me over the winter. Good to go.