Seeking Canoe Information

[westbearskin]

Hello! Would love some help finding information about what I think to be an Old Town canoe. The number is 16 12508.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Charlie

 

[Benson Gray]

Welcome, the Old Town canoe with serial number 12508 is a 16 foot long, AA (or top) grade, Charles River model with red western cedar planking, open mahogany gunwales, mahogany decks, mahogany thwarts, mahogany seats, half ribs, a keel, and outside stems. It was built between October, 1909 and January, 1910. The original exterior paint color was white. It shipped on February 11th, 1910 to St. Louis, Mo. A scan of this build record can be found by following the link at the thumbnail image attached below.

This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to join.

It is possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. A digit may be hidden so check both ends. The information at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?791 may be useful. Posting pictures of the numbers and surrounding areas here can also help. There are several 16 foot long canoes in the 12508x range. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Benson

 

[Greg Nolan]

Benson --

Do you know when Old Town started calling a canoe like Charlie's here -- an AA grade Charles River model with half ribs -- an "Ideal" canoe?

When we bought our 1922 OT "Ideal" restored by Ralph Nimtz, he gave us a copy of an OT catalog page (no date) describing the Ideal model that reads:

“Old Town 'IDEAL MODEL' Canoe”
"Here is a canoe of surpassing refinement and distinction. It is the regular Charles River Model in A. A. Grade, with open mahogany gunwales and fitted with the special feature of Half Ribs. Embodies charm of beauty in appearance and utility. The practical feature of open gunwales and half ribs, with high quality, stamp it as the canoe par excellence."

Greg

 

[Benson Gray]

Do you know when Old Town started calling a canoe like Charlie's here -- an AA grade Charles River model with half ribs -- an "Ideal" canoe?

The Ideal model was first introduced in the 1906 catalog and remained as a separate model until the 1923 catalog. It was described as the "Ideal Style" of the Charles River Canoe in the 1924 to 1929 catalogs. Both models were removed from the 1930 and following catalogs as motor boats and other models became more prominent. The relevant pages from the 1906 (pages 12 and 13), 1922 (page 14), 1923 (page 8 which is almost identical to the 1922 page 14), 1924 (page 5), and 1929 (page 10) catalogs are attached below. More details like this are available from http://store.wcha.org/The-Complete-Old-Town-Canoe-Company-Catalog-Collection-CD-ROM.html in the catalog collection. Let me know if this doesn't answer your question. Thanks,

Benson

 

[Greg Nolan]

So -- even though its build record does not identify it as such, would it be correct to call Charlie's 1910 16' AA grade Charles River canoe, with half ribs, an Ideal model?

 

[Benson Gray]

So -- even though its build record does not identify it as such, would it be correct to call Charlie's 1910 16' AA grade Charles River canoe, with half ribs, an Ideal model?

It certainly has all of the characteristics of an Ideal model so the only question would be if this is 'correct' identification or not. This is really a semantic question like the age old debate about the point where you have replaced so many parts on an old canoe that it becomes a new one. I will leave the resolution of these questions to people who are smarter than me. Does anyone else have any thoughts on these topics?

Benson

 

[westbearskin]

Hello Benson and Greg,

Thanks so much for all of this fascinating information. The service you provide through this forum is amazing. I'm hoping to make some progress on the canoe refurbishing in the next year and will keep you posted.

I think this canoe was ordered through a department store in St. Louis. That store went out of business in the '60's. Do you think there is a way to find out the name of the individual who placed the order?

Thanks again for the information you've provided!

Charlie

 

[Benson Gray]

Do you think there is a way to find out the name of the individual who placed the order?

The short answer is no. The longer answer is that the store / dealer would have to kept very detailed records that have been preserved and are available for research. This seems highly unlikely. Let us know if you can find out more details,

Benson