I am trying to put a 1920's Robertson canoe back to its original configuration and design. This 17' boat (hull number 3486) has many restoration indignities thrust upon it. Can anyone provide me a few pictures on what the original seat, outwale and deck details should look like? Thank you
Robertson canoe pictures needed
- Thread starter Maxtoon
- Start date
The classified archive at https://wcha.org/classified-archive/ has one. There have been several others posted here over the years. The search function and links below may help. Good luck,
Benson
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Benson
16' J.R. Robertson found at a local auction recently...
At an antique auction in Rhode Island last week I saw this wonderful Robertson sitting in the parking lot, and it was the first item to be sold. In looking at it closely, I saw that it had my name on it, so I bought it and brought it home to add to the other canoes I haven't restored yet. It...
Robertson canoes
Greetings, Can someone direct me to the history of the J. Robertson canoe company? I just acquired a 16’ Robertson, closed gunwale, short deck canoe. Robertson is stamped into a thwart and there is a 4 digit serial number stamped into the stem. Thank you, Jody Bronson
J. R. Robertson Canoe
Is there anyway to estimate the age and model of a Robertson Canoe. Found one in Central New York. Maker's name barely visable on thwart and the gunnels are closed. Is there a good source of Robertson canoe history? Thanks.
The one at https://wcha.org/classified-archive/Robertson-17-8-2-22.pdf in the archive has open gunwales. Robertson is not known for open gunwales and it is possible that these two examples were cut down at some point in the past to convert the closed gunwales to open. The four known Robertson catalogs have no mention or pictures of open gunwales. See https://www.wcha.org/catalogs/robertsn/specific.jpg for an example. Sorry,
Benson
Benson
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No, thank you…that is exactly what I am trying to discover. The current state of the canoe is imaginative but not authentic. I am trying to understand how best to revert it to it’s original state.
The archive photo has that same half-cap on the inwale that mine has. It looks to me like the outwale is rabbeted and stands proud to the height of that inwale cap. Low res picture, so it is hard to be sure. The archive canoe looks very similar to mine, right down to the very squared-off seat frames and that weird inwale cap hiding the seat and thwart bolt heads. The outwales on the archive canoe look more robust than the one's on my canoe. Hmmmmmm. It would be nice to keep a membership roster with the canoes in their possession for these reference needs.
The archive photo has that same half-cap on the inwale that mine has. It looks to me like the outwale is rabbeted and stands proud to the height of that inwale cap. Low res picture, so it is hard to be sure. The archive canoe looks very similar to mine, right down to the very squared-off seat frames and that weird inwale cap hiding the seat and thwart bolt heads. The outwales on the archive canoe look more robust than the one's on my canoe. Hmmmmmm. It would be nice to keep a membership roster with the canoes in their possession for these reference needs.
There was an effort to create a list of the WCHA members' canoes in the early 1990s. See the article starting on page 14 of the Wooden Canoe Journal Issue number 42 for more information about the beginning of the WCHA list. That list shows 11 Robertsons out of 1746 canoes (or 0.62%). An identical number of Carleton canoes are on that list. The serial number records indicate that Carleton made over 20,000 canoes and about two percent appear to have survived based on the requests since 1997. The statistics for Robertson canoes may be similar but there are no known records available to confirm this.
This idea of rebuilding the WCHA canoe database has come up occasionally but no one has yet volunteered to lead that effort. It can take some time to manage. Let me know if you or anyone else is interested in taking on a project like this.
Benson
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MGC
Scrapmaker
It's an intriguing idea, but a very lofty one. As with many organizations, there are always a limited number of "doers" who can or will step up to take on such initiatives.
I am personally grateful to Benson for responding to my suggestion to maintain the files that are contained in classified adds. I had made that suggestion several times before Benson graciously took on the task, I have used several saved images recently. It is noteworthy that they are also benefiting you for your search. I hope that there are others also using this resource.
Tracking WCHA canoes...that would be a daunting task. Very few members use this forum on a regular basis. I can think of only a handful of our local members who participate here. The ones who do might be willing to contribute but that still leaves a significant void.
As you may have recently noticed, many of us do keep a loose catalogue of interesting canoes and where they are. For every member who responds to research or technical questions, there are many more who do not.
Thank you very much for answering my questions about your SLBW canoe. Of the 7 other persons I reached out to, only one other opted to reply.
There is the nut that will be so hard to crack. Some (as Jody recently did) will share their collections. Others will not. It's been my experience that folks who are participants here are also those who are most likely to offer information. Michael Grace has measured things for me more than once as have Jody and others....
I suppose the argument could be that something is better than nothing but let's keep things in perspective. Often, when we are able to find some information about a builder's methods it is work from a "common" builder. The question about how Old Town tied the stem and rails has been asked hundreds of times. That is not true for more obscure builders.
Further complicating, many of the boats we have in queue for restoration suffer (as yours apparently does) from previous restoration freestyling repairs. We may not be any more able to offer the correct answer than you are.
That said, go with your instincts and odds are you will probably get it close enough to right. If someone else sees flaw in your work, they can change it during the next restoration.
If the ACBS can keep a conpendium of member boats, we should be able to as well. Maybe on a "if you contribute, you have access to the results" basis? Just spit-balling here.......I will put some thought into how this data might be collected and shared in a more modern way.
Rob Stevens
Wooden Canoes are in the Blood
What Mike (MGC) said. Many canoe owners have more than one canoe, unlike ACBS owners' (boats). Some, even casual "collectors" have many more than one. It would take a mindset and effort to document and share their collections. And these connections are often continually changing. Reality seems to get in the way.
MGC
Scrapmaker
As Rob astutely points out, many of us have multitudes of canoes and although (in my case) there are a core few that I have held on to, there are even more that I have passed along to make room for others or to add focus my accumulation. Some of my canoes are quite easily accessible, but others are not. There are some up in the rafters that need an organized effort to extract. I have others in a friend's barn and also in my MILS garage. Gaining access to take photos or to collect details is not as easy at it should be.
A further challenge is that I have not always done a great job of cataloging my work or the boats I have owned. I don't think I can put my hands on any pictures of the one Robertson I owned... I had one, but it wasn't one I decided to keep. I probably have some images on my desktop computer that I rarley use anymore. Given that it could take me hours to find them, I probably won't.
One final thing...there are some canoes I simply do not advertise owning. From time to time, I might correspond with someone in need of details for such a canoe but by and large, I'm not sure I would want to publish a list of what I have.
A further challenge is that I have not always done a great job of cataloging my work or the boats I have owned. I don't think I can put my hands on any pictures of the one Robertson I owned... I had one, but it wasn't one I decided to keep. I probably have some images on my desktop computer that I rarley use anymore. Given that it could take me hours to find them, I probably won't.
One final thing...there are some canoes I simply do not advertise owning. From time to time, I might correspond with someone in need of details for such a canoe but by and large, I'm not sure I would want to publish a list of what I have.
There is a thread at the link below titled "The wooden canoes we've owned..." for anyone who wants to share information about their canoes. I have also "not always done a great job of cataloging my work or the boats I have owned" as MGC mentioned.
Benson
The wooden canoes we've owned...
The Wooden Boat forum has an interesting thread titled "The boats we've owned." at http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?139031 and it seemed worth starting a similar thread here. It was slightly alarming to put my list together: 1981 17' Old Town Canoe Company Molitor model...
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MGC
Scrapmaker
But very dated....case in point, all of Dennis canoes have changed hands...
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
There is a mechanism to do what is being discussed here and we have recently been looking at how to implement it. I hope to share more by the time of the membership meeting, and hope we might have this in place before long. There are some logistical hurdles so don't want to get too deep into it until we have those solved. Like others have said here, I agree it could be very useful to know what's out there and to be able to more effectively reach out for discussion with others who have similar canoes/boats and interests. My plan is to produce a system that takes into account the fluidity of ownership. I know this is just a teaser, but more soon!
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