Refinishing Seats

enggass

Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes
Hey all,
Fixing up my old canoe and am refinishing everything. Stain, then Varnish.
I am unsure how to tackle refinishing the seats as the webbing is still on. Attached pic shows the type of webbing I have on my seats... Suggestions? I'd rather not remove it (webbing) as I am trying to keep as much original as possible... Thanks.
Seat.jpg
 
The "webbing" is snowshoe rawhide (also called babiche by folks trying to go native) and no, you don't want to remove it. Assuming it isn't broken or rotten you don't really want to mess with it unless you know how and have a lacing pattern available. It was originally soaked in water until soft, stretched over the frame following the pattern, and splices between strands were made on the fly in out of the way spots as needed, so that they don't poke you in the rear end. Then it was allowed to dry and shrink up tight. Finally it was sealed from water with spar varnish.

Best bet is probably to carefully sand and clean up the wood as well as possible between the laces, knock off any loose or flaking varnish from the lacing (careful use of sandpaper or a wire brush) and then revarnish the entire seat, rawhide and all. I suppose you could try to stain the wood between the strands, but stain may be more trouble than it's worth.

It is also worth taking the time to sit down and make an accurate drawing showing the lacing pattern, in case you ever do need to replace the rawhide on one. This lacing is essentially all done with a single strand, going around and around the frame following a specific, repeating pattern. You can find the starting point and show the path on the drawing with little arrows on the strand. If you know the pattern, the job isn't too bad. If not, you're screwed, so this would be a good time to make a permanent record of the pattern. Some good photos of the pattern would also be a good idea for future reference.
 
Cool. Thanks for all of the info. I can do without the staining - no problem. So I should varnish 'all' of the webbing? or just where it is on the frame?
 
You want to varnish the whole thing - wood and lacing, top side, underside, seat bar ends until they won't absorb any more and as much as you can get down into the bolt holes with multiple applications. The varnish is what keeps the hide from stretching in use due to moisture absorption. On a long trip in wet weather, you will probably still get some temporary stretching. It will usually go away after they have dried out again.

A couple other things to know about rawhide: It comes full grain (the full original thickness of the hide) and this type is the best quality - strongest and resists stretch the best. Most high quality rawhide products are full grain. Leather and rawhide are also available as split grain. This stuff has been split into layers. "Top grain" means that you are getting the natural top surface (the best and toughest part of the hide) as well as some of the stuff underneath the top. Then there is "split grain" which generally is all made from just the under layers (a better translation for split grain would be "somebody else got the best part of this piece - so don't expect too much from it". A lot of rawhide vendors these days sell both full grain, and also a top grain split version at a lower price. It is worth the difference to buy the full grain version for products like canoe seats and snowshoes if you ever need to replace your lacing.

There is also a top side and a bottom side to the lacing strips. Usually, the top surface is smoother, but not always. As they dry, it is not unusual for them to curl a bit, and they will usually curl away from the top side. By making sure the top side is positioned upward (where you will be sitting) the stuff tends to be somewhat less abrasive to sit on, as dried rawhide strips have pretty sharp edges.

For a short time in their very early days, Mad River Canoe was hooked up with Tubbs of Vermont (the snowshoe company) and the boats had snowshoe rawhide seats made at the Tubbs factory. I owned one of the very early "Malecite" canoes from this period (a dynamite little boat that I wouldn't mind still having). We took it on a ten day long trip into Canada and during that time, both of us wore holes through the seats of relatively new Levis due to abrasion on the rawhide seats. Ever since I've started going over the rawhide top side pretty carefully with my hand on seats before varnishing, looking for sharp edges and dulling them down a little bit with a scrap of sandpaper. It's not a huge deal, but it helps and if you're getting ready to revarnish your seats it may be worth doing before getting out the brush.
 
Todd or anybody,

Is that seat in upside down?
Shouldn't the leather be at the top surface of the seat frame?

Dan
 
No, I think it's correct. With this style of lashing (which is also the one usually used on snowshoe mid-sections or other high-stress areas) those little loops over the strands where they meet the frame will tend to pull the strands down toward the center of the frame bars. You could probably get an "on top" pattern like you do with cane by using holes through the bars and a weave with smaller rawhide strands and more of them, but this one is pretty typical with big strands and that six-sided star weaving pattern.
 
Maybe it's just the angle of the pic, but it looks like the web surface is closer to the bottom than the top.

Either way, it doesn't look very comfortable.

Dan
 
They are not comfortable at all... Also, it appears as though mine are not actual rawhide, but some sort of manmade material like nylon... I think I will just try to varnish around the straps.
 
Then they're probably snowshoe neoprene - kind of rubbery on the outsides with a little bit of thread visible from the sides of the cut strips. The "advantage" of it on snowshoes is that it's less likely to sag when wet. The disadvantage is that, as you have already figured out, you have to varnish around it, which is a pain in the butt. A couple canvas cushions, sized to fit the seat area with about 1/2" of dense closed-cell foam inside and ties on their corners are a wonderful accessory to build for both snowshoe and cane seats - especially for long trips. Plus, they're just as handy around camp as in the boat.
 
It looks like you have a Stowe Mansfield or similar canoe. I refinished a Stowe this past spring. I gave up trying to varnish the frames between the lacing and finished the woven lacing with just a coat of thinned varnish. I cleaned up the seats thoroughly before varnish. The thinned varnish had no ill effect on the woven lacing.
 
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