Racine? Thompson? (Copper Rivets)

[Mule]

Greetings to you all. I am new to canoes and promised to recover my father-in-law's canoe. After that I plan to get my Step-Grandfather's mother's Old Town (early 1900's with sailing rig) and restore it.

The father-in-law's canoe is the one I just started to take apart and am wondering what it is. I hope it might look familiar to you well-seasoned Canoe experts.

Here's some info about it and a couple pictures:

Overall Length: 18'-8"
Overall Width: 35"
Height Amidships: 13"

Front and Rear Decks: Thin mahogany 28" at center of combing, 38" at edges. Supported by what looks like 2"x2" framing.

Ribs: 2" x approx 3/8" spaced on 3-1/2" centers
Half Ribs: 1-1/4" wide (no stringers)
Inner Stems: 7/8" wide

Outer Stems: It has them; attached with finishing nails, screw at keel end; rivet at top (through both outer wales).

Gunwales: Mahogany I think; copper rivets every 5th rib, copper nail through outer gunwale every 3rd rib.

ID number: Stamped on a rib in the front "86-18" and beneath that "18"

Planking: Top planks are parallel to keel - I'll strip some canvas and post a picture soon.

So far I love working on this. It's perfect work for me. Though I will need to develop a many wood-working skills before long.

Thanks for taking the time to read this ramble!

Cheers,
Paul Hammarstedt
Crystal Lake, IL USA

 

[Mule]

Some planking pictures from inside

Here are some pictures of the planking from inside the canoe. Also one of the termination of gunwales and outer stem....

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Mule]

More Pictures (I got carried away with the pictures -- sorry).

The seats are bolted with "normal" bolts (not square heads).



Cheers,
Paul

 

[Paul Miller]

I vote Racine.

It has a number of Thompson characteristics, staight ribs and planking patern, but I don't think Thompson rivited the gunnels and those long decks are not Thompson.

You have a great looking canoe. And we love pictures, you never post enough.

Paul

 

[Paul Miller]

Here is a picture of the top. You will notice the rib down the middle is more round vs. wide and flat, and they come to a point where the meet the inwale/outwale.

Paul

 

[Dan Lindberg]

I don't know Paul,

I have on my rack a canoe we "think" is a Thompson Ranger, S&S. It has the optional long mahogany decks shown in the Thompson catalogs, that look very similar to the ones on this canoe.

It also has a S/N similar to that shown, ie, large digits, stamped on a rib, digits parallel with the rib, ours is 1030 16.

I see this one has the 45 degree chamfer on the ends of the ribs like a Thompson too.

I'd post some pics but I don't have any here.

Dan

 

[Dan Miller]

The open gunwales fastened with rivets, the shape of the coaming and the way it covers the rib tips, the seat drops, the serial number location, the stem profile, and the lack of stringers covering the half ribs all point to Racine Boat Company (Wisconsin) to me.

Dan, I have seen chamfered ribs on Thompsons, Racines and Shell Lakes - seems to be a Wisconsin thing...

Cheers,
Dan

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Dan,

Could the canoe we think is Thompson be a Racine?
The S/N on looks a lot like the ones on this one.

??

Dan

 

[Dan Miller]

Could the canoe we think is Thompson be a Racine?
The S/N on looks a lot like the ones on this one.

Could be. Did you ever send me photos of it? Thompson canoes usually don't have serial numbers, and the couple I have seen that did had them stamped on the stem ala Old Town.

Cheers,
Dan

 

[Dan Lindberg]

I don't know, it's been too long sense I looked at it. It's actually the wife's cousin's canoe, I'm just storing it for him.

And I just remembered, due to our house project, all the pics are packed away downstairs in boxes. I'll try to find the pics but I'm not sure where they are.

Dan

 

[Mule]

Wow! Great response. I'm grateful to you all.

The boat was sold with the lakefront house the father-in-law bought in the late '70's. It's history is unknown. But we are not too far from Racine (in Illinois).

Here's some views of the deck parts (combing stuck to them with varnish) and their supports underneath.

The outer stem extended up to be flush with the top of the deck. The deck center finishing strip went over it at the tip. It's a very thin deck.

The supports that support the deck seem crude. They almost look like pressure treated wood. But I'm sure they are not. In that area the gunwales were nailed with copper nails that were bent over inboard. That's one way to do it I guess.

I buggered up the wood getting brass nails out of the deck and those infernal rivets out of the gunwales. But the wood parts all have some small amount of rot, so I didn't beat myself up over it. But it would be sacrilege to put it back together with out them, right?

I must order some of those catalog CD's! Feel like I'm missing out on some fun without them.

Thanks for the kind words,
Paul

 

[Mule]

You all might be saturated with this drivel, but here's some more anyway.

I read an article by Jack McGreivey from Wooden Canoe at:

http://www.wcha.org/wcj/v26_n2/racine.pdf

In it, he describes differences between the Racine Boat Manufacturing Co (Muskegon, MI) and Racine Boat Co.(Racine WI).

Mine seems to be a Racine Boat Co. Reasons including 1" keel, ribs nailed to inwales, rolled back stem profile, suspended bow seat, open gunwales, rivets joining in and out wales. All this is pretty much what Dan Miller said right off (using a lot fewer words too -- heh heh). When people say it's a "Racine" does that category include "Muskegon" Racines too?

Anyway mine seems to be the Racine "Navajo" maybe. It looks like the one pictured in the article. I can feel holes where the seats were caned at one time.

But in conflict with the article which says only Muskegon canoes had this, mine has a serial number crayoned on the bow planking. Go figure.

Here are some pictures of the planking and numbers on written the bow. They are on both sides. Sorry for the fuzzy port side photo. I hate flash and wasn't holding my breath well.

Thanks for enduring this ramble. Just thought I'd report what I found in the odd chance it is helpful to someone. If it is obvious to most... sorry.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Dan Miller]

Anyway mine seems to be the Racine "Navajo" maybe.

Yes, I would agree. RacineWis offered three models of canoe. All were essentially the same hull, probably built on the same mold(s). The Chippewa has short decks, the Senecea 30" cedar decks, and the Navajo has 30" mahogany decks.

Jack's article says he hasn't seen serial numbers at all on RacineWis canoes, however, I do have some photographs showing a RacineWis (identified by decal) that has serial numbers stamped on the ribs. The canvas is on it still, so don't know about numbers on the hull.

Cheers,
Dan

 

[Mule]

Good to know. Thanks for the insight, Dan!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Randy Johnson]

Response to Thompson or Racine question

From my experience in owning and rebuilding both Thompson and Racine canoes, I would agree with Dan Miller and Paul Miller that your canoe is a Racine for all the good reasons they have mentioned. Along with every other description, the shape of the half rib ends, and the shape of the thwarts are identical to my 18' Racine.
Racine's are cool...have fun restoring and paddling it!

 

[Mule]

Randy,

Thanks for the reply. I only have a hundred or two questions I could ask. Taking the Racine apart has bonded me to it in ways I did not forsee. It is a cool old boat!

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Paul Miller]

Canoe nut

Hi Paul,

They don't call us canoe nuts for nothing.

I think Rollin Thurlow puts it into words very well in the beginning of his book "The Wood & Canvas Canoe", (a must read by the way).

Rollin uses words like intoxicating and consuming. And yes "in the majority of cases there are the symptoms of an addiction, or at least a suspension of common sense where canoes are concerned."

Welcome to the club,

Paul

 

[Mule]

Thanks for the welcome, Paul!

I am mid-way throught Rollin's book and it has me captivated. While learning a lot, it has me tempted to build a form.... it looks so satisfying...but that can't be good....

Common sense has indeed left. But I've bonded with these wooden beauties!

Cheers,
Paul