The old Otca, circa 1930s, was recanvassed back in the early 1970s and that is still in good shape. The seats were re-caned later. Generally, the boat is in good shape. But the interior has one rib that was cracked or broken, certainly nothing in urgent need of repair. The varnish has never been re-done and has largely darkened and flaked off in a few spots. Is this just an aesthetic issue? I assume the canoe could be used for years in this condition. It is quite functional. What would be the best method for re-varnishing the interior? Varnish remover or some kind of light sanding? I assume the decks and spars would all have to be removed when undertaking such a job. I guess it would be difficult getting into the back of the bow and stern. Any advice appreciated!
possible Otca renovation
- Thread starter Don
- Start date
Refinishing
Don,
The best way to handle the interior is to chemicl strip using a paint stripper. Every one has there favorites. I've been experimenting with using a spray on chemical stripper (available at hardware store) These use a hand spray bottle (like windex window cleaner type of spray bottle). It's a good way to get good coverage fast and neat. When the stripper has done its work I break up the old varnish mush with a stiff bristle brush. Then clean out as much of the chemical varnish mush as I can with #2 steal wool. Once you've cleaned a spot like this you'll have to go back over it and do it again to get it really clean. Rinse everything off with warm water and tri-sodium phosphate to clean the wood and brighten oxidation. A good final step is to wash the whole canoe down when your done with a high pressure water hose. This is to be sure that you've gotten all the residue out of the nooks and cranies. It's important to do that because the residue can reject varnish finishes. You'll need plenty of steel wool, stiff bristle brushes of assorted shapes and sizes and lots of elbow grease. This is easier than trying to sand the interior and gives better results also less damaging to the canoe planks. You shouldn't have to remove the decks to get under there but it is a pain in the neck. Good luck.
Martin
Don,
The best way to handle the interior is to chemicl strip using a paint stripper. Every one has there favorites. I've been experimenting with using a spray on chemical stripper (available at hardware store) These use a hand spray bottle (like windex window cleaner type of spray bottle). It's a good way to get good coverage fast and neat. When the stripper has done its work I break up the old varnish mush with a stiff bristle brush. Then clean out as much of the chemical varnish mush as I can with #2 steal wool. Once you've cleaned a spot like this you'll have to go back over it and do it again to get it really clean. Rinse everything off with warm water and tri-sodium phosphate to clean the wood and brighten oxidation. A good final step is to wash the whole canoe down when your done with a high pressure water hose. This is to be sure that you've gotten all the residue out of the nooks and cranies. It's important to do that because the residue can reject varnish finishes. You'll need plenty of steel wool, stiff bristle brushes of assorted shapes and sizes and lots of elbow grease. This is easier than trying to sand the interior and gives better results also less damaging to the canoe planks. You shouldn't have to remove the decks to get under there but it is a pain in the neck. Good luck.
Martin
Martin Dumas
7406
Chemical stripping is easiest with the canvas off. If you decide to strip the interior, be sure to use the stripper sparingly so that it does not attack the canvas filler through the cracks in the planking. A gel type stripper may help. Working upside down too ?
Or maybe just retouching the existing finish where necessary would be more appropriate if it's in decent condition overall.
Good luck either way,
Martin
Or maybe just retouching the existing finish where necessary would be more appropriate if it's in decent condition overall.
Good luck either way,
Martin
mark wismer
WCHA Member
You shouldn't remove the seats/thawards all at the same time. You will find that the canoe has tension and will change shape if you remove all the items that hold things in shape...
That said, you'll be able to clean and re-varnish but you do need to control any stripper. Try cleaning and a light sanding to see if you can just add another coat. Use it until it needs canvas then strip, fix that lone rib and recover it then...you'll already understand and appreciate the wood canvas when it's time to refurb.
That said, you'll be able to clean and re-varnish but you do need to control any stripper. Try cleaning and a light sanding to see if you can just add another coat. Use it until it needs canvas then strip, fix that lone rib and recover it then...you'll already understand and appreciate the wood canvas when it's time to refurb.
smallboatshop
Restorers
Sounds like a good project-to-be.
I agree with Mark that stripping would be best when the canvas is off. And you have had 35 years of that canvas so it doesn't owe you much. You may need new canvas soon. Recanvassing, stripping and re-varnishing, and rib, plank and tip repairs are just part of the long term maintanance of the canoe and are most easily done together. Cleaning, painting and touching up the coats of varnish are yearly or general maintenance to be done between re-canvassings.
Dan
I agree with Mark that stripping would be best when the canvas is off. And you have had 35 years of that canvas so it doesn't owe you much. You may need new canvas soon. Recanvassing, stripping and re-varnishing, and rib, plank and tip repairs are just part of the long term maintanance of the canoe and are most easily done together. Cleaning, painting and touching up the coats of varnish are yearly or general maintenance to be done between re-canvassings.
Dan
Hmm, looks like this may be a big project!
It has been garaged and used only occasionally, so I hope it can keep going for awhile before doing all this work. We have 2 kids under 4 years old, so not a lot of project time available, plus my renovation skills are minimal. Taking boat building classes is a fun idea, but not a lot of time for that either. Which means it will have to stay the way it is for some time and/or take it to someone to do work. Thanks for all the advice. I am still pretty new to learning about keeping up these canoes, although I have been paddling this Otca since I was a kid. Thus, I want to keep it in good shape. My idea is to get it completely renovated so it will last for the next 70 years. Any ideas how much a recanvassing, and refinishing job would run? I know this would be a ballpark figure and depend on many variables.
It has been garaged and used only occasionally, so I hope it can keep going for awhile before doing all this work. We have 2 kids under 4 years old, so not a lot of project time available, plus my renovation skills are minimal. Taking boat building classes is a fun idea, but not a lot of time for that either. Which means it will have to stay the way it is for some time and/or take it to someone to do work. Thanks for all the advice. I am still pretty new to learning about keeping up these canoes, although I have been paddling this Otca since I was a kid. Thus, I want to keep it in good shape. My idea is to get it completely renovated so it will last for the next 70 years. Any ideas how much a recanvassing, and refinishing job would run? I know this would be a ballpark figure and depend on many variables.
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Hi Don,
A quality full-blown restoration can easily cost you $ thousands. With two small kids at home, perhaps cost is also an issue. There are many qualified restorers out there who will do a quality job at a fair price, but this is laborious, time-consuming work. I'm convinced that- despite the high apparent cost of professional restoration- most restorers don't get paid what they should for the quality work that they perform.
In addition, don't underestimate your own abilities- many people just like you have learned the art of restoration through self-taught hands-on experience. The greatest hurdle is not usually the doing, but rather the fear of doing something wrong.
Pick up a copy of Stelmok and Thurlow's "The Wood & Canvas Canoe"...
it is available through this site in the WCHA Online Store section:
http://woodencanoe.org/catalog/prod...d=418&osCsid=70b704036d5b69eb43a213244e7e4ec1
You can read and re-read the section on restoration, peruse these forums for many discussions of the details of restoration, and ask questions here as you go. If you do undertake restoration yourself, you can produce a product that you're extremely proud of, and if you do make mistakes, you can always correct them.
Whether you choose to restore yourself or hire a qualified professional, restoration of the canoe will protect its physical structure as well as the wealth of memories stored in that old boat. Whatever you do, just do it.
Michael
A quality full-blown restoration can easily cost you $ thousands. With two small kids at home, perhaps cost is also an issue. There are many qualified restorers out there who will do a quality job at a fair price, but this is laborious, time-consuming work. I'm convinced that- despite the high apparent cost of professional restoration- most restorers don't get paid what they should for the quality work that they perform.
In addition, don't underestimate your own abilities- many people just like you have learned the art of restoration through self-taught hands-on experience. The greatest hurdle is not usually the doing, but rather the fear of doing something wrong.
Pick up a copy of Stelmok and Thurlow's "The Wood & Canvas Canoe"...
it is available through this site in the WCHA Online Store section:
http://woodencanoe.org/catalog/prod...d=418&osCsid=70b704036d5b69eb43a213244e7e4ec1
You can read and re-read the section on restoration, peruse these forums for many discussions of the details of restoration, and ask questions here as you go. If you do undertake restoration yourself, you can produce a product that you're extremely proud of, and if you do make mistakes, you can always correct them.
Whether you choose to restore yourself or hire a qualified professional, restoration of the canoe will protect its physical structure as well as the wealth of memories stored in that old boat. Whatever you do, just do it.
Michael
smallboatshop
Restorers
Agree with Michael and add that you might find help in your local chapter; maybe using your canoe as the project for rib repair or canvassing etc. Also, you might find a professional restorer to work with - where you get guidance and shop tools and steam box, but you do all the stripping and sanding and varnishing and painting and sanding and sanding and sanding - and saving some money while being involved in the restoration.
Dan
Dan
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
You see there, Don- this is a wonderful community. Dan and Linda ("smallboatshop") run a canoe and boat restoration shop in Denmark, Maine (www.smallboat-shop.com), yet they are willing to encourage you to enjoy doing as much yourself as you feel comfortable with. Good folks! If you do need some help, you'd do well to seek out the professional help of people like Dan and Linda, or others listed on these pages. Good folks!
Michael
Michael
Here's my 2 cents.
A full on restoration makes a boat look real nice, but a little do no harm rehabilitation may get/keep you on the water until you have time to clean it up proper.
If the cracked ribs aren't deforming the hull, flood in some epoxy and stay away from heavy water and rocky creeks.
If you aren't going to be dragging the boat over beaver dams, the old canvas may hold for quite a while. Throw in a roll of duct tape for peace of mind and enjoy the water.
Scrub out the interior with some TSP, give it a light sanding, and add a coat or two of varnish to protect the thin spots. If you don't like how it looks, you can always bring out the stripper.
A full on restoration makes a boat look real nice, but a little do no harm rehabilitation may get/keep you on the water until you have time to clean it up proper.
If the cracked ribs aren't deforming the hull, flood in some epoxy and stay away from heavy water and rocky creeks.
If you aren't going to be dragging the boat over beaver dams, the old canvas may hold for quite a while. Throw in a roll of duct tape for peace of mind and enjoy the water.
Scrub out the interior with some TSP, give it a light sanding, and add a coat or two of varnish to protect the thin spots. If you don't like how it looks, you can always bring out the stripper.
mark wismer
WCHA Member
Since it sounds like this one is useable, I'd clean and re-varnish and keep going...As long as it's stored properly; ie. out of the sun & weather; it will remain in it's current [or spruced up] condition until you & the kids are ready to tackle it!
ebeeby
Novice Canoe Restorer
One note on "high pressure water". It is a convenient cleaning tool but can damage soft wood like cedar planks. The damage will occur as gouges to the soft part of the grain leaving the "rings" of the tree high. This can produce an odd appearance of the wood even after sanding. Caution should be used when using high pressure washers on a W/C canoe.
My two cents on Otca restoration
My 1924 Otca is almost finshed--and it is glorious indeed. Many ribs replaced, much planking, new canvas, etc. What I have learned about wood, varnish, canvas, and paint! Fortunately, I worked with a local boatbuilder, Alda Maturi, the whole way, and benefitted from much telephone assistance from Rollin Thurlow and his associates (really fine people) as well as folks at Old Town.
My opinion is that there is no "partial" restoration of such an old canoe. One either does it, or does not. You will certainly find more bad ribs and planking when you strip the varnish. Why do only some of what is needed, re-canvas and re-paint (a tricky business to say the least), only to find that you must repeat the process when you decide to fix the rest?
The whole job? Many, many hours--or, should you engage a capable restorer, many, many dollars.
Judging by your description of your situation, it seems you don't need a way to absorb excess time and money. My suggestion would be to leave it alone, assuming the filler, paint and varnish are sufficiently intact to keep water out. If not, another coat or so on an old boat shouldn't hurt anything, should it? Someone on this forum can recommend the right paint and varnish, I'm sure. I used Epifanes varnish and Petit enamel.
Take your children canoeing! They will certainly not notice what the finish looks like, but they will remember each and every trip. Especially if there is fishing.
Isn't is great to have an old wooden canoe?
Cheers
David
My 1924 Otca is almost finshed--and it is glorious indeed. Many ribs replaced, much planking, new canvas, etc. What I have learned about wood, varnish, canvas, and paint! Fortunately, I worked with a local boatbuilder, Alda Maturi, the whole way, and benefitted from much telephone assistance from Rollin Thurlow and his associates (really fine people) as well as folks at Old Town.
My opinion is that there is no "partial" restoration of such an old canoe. One either does it, or does not. You will certainly find more bad ribs and planking when you strip the varnish. Why do only some of what is needed, re-canvas and re-paint (a tricky business to say the least), only to find that you must repeat the process when you decide to fix the rest?
The whole job? Many, many hours--or, should you engage a capable restorer, many, many dollars.
Judging by your description of your situation, it seems you don't need a way to absorb excess time and money. My suggestion would be to leave it alone, assuming the filler, paint and varnish are sufficiently intact to keep water out. If not, another coat or so on an old boat shouldn't hurt anything, should it? Someone on this forum can recommend the right paint and varnish, I'm sure. I used Epifanes varnish and Petit enamel.
Take your children canoeing! They will certainly not notice what the finish looks like, but they will remember each and every trip. Especially if there is fishing.
Isn't is great to have an old wooden canoe?
Cheers
David
