Please help identify - 68747 17

[Steve Bunge]

Hello. This whole forum is such a great resource that I had to join. I am embarking on getting an old wood and canvas canoe into paddling form. It was gifted to me in the late 1990s by someone who had it in their garage and didn't know anything about the history of the boat. The canvas was in rough shape and I always figured I would work on it. Now, 25 years later, I finally have the time

I found that both the bow and stern stems were stamped with the numbers 68747 17. It is hard to read but you can see it in the photos if you zoom in significantly. I know that 17 refers to the canoe length and I assume 68747 is the serial number.

I've included photos of the bow and stern decks showing the concave shape and banding since I know that can be helpful for identification. It was touch to get a photo along the length to show the shape so I've included the one snap of it on the car. Lastly, there is an old photo showing that the canvas when I got the boat was painted light blue (or faded, I suppose) and had lettering saying "EL JAY 21". Haven't found that reference anywhere.

Any help you can send my way would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Steve Bunge]

I zoomed in an enhanced the stern stem with the numbers. Still a little hard to see but definitely 68747 17.

 

[Benson Gray]

Welcome and congratulations, the Old Town canoe with serial number 68747 is a 17 foot long, AA (or top) grade, Otca model with red Western cedar planking, open mahogany gunwales, twenty inch mahogany decks, mahogany thwarts, mahogany seats, a keel, outside stems, two brass flag pole sockets, and two brass painter rings. It was built between December, 1921 and February, 1922. The original exterior paint color was Federal blue with a bright red border stripe and a gold stripe with turned down ends. This may have been similar to the image shown at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/designs/design35.gif (with different colors) which was known as design number 35. It shipped on March 13th, 1922 to Chicago, Illinois. A scan of this build record can be found below.

This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will donate, join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See https://www.woodencanoe.org/about to learn more about the WCHA and https://www.woodencanoe.org/shop to donate or join.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. The "EL JAY 21" was probably added by a more recent owner. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Benson

 

[Steve Bunge]

Thank you so much Benson. Very helpful and much older than I thought.

Would the painter rings and the flag pole sockets have been mounted on the decks? Ultimately, I will have to take the finish off of the decks but, right now, there isn't much evidence of hardware mounting other than the one bored hole that had a rope with a knot through it when I got the boat.

 

[Benson Gray]

Would the painter rings and the flag pole sockets have been mounted on the decks?

Yes, the flag pole sockets were commonly mounted on the decks. See http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/15311/ for some examples. The painter rings could be on the decks or on the stems. The image at http://forums.wcha.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6392&d=1225896293 shows an original painter ring from 1914 (with the holes from a missing flag pole socket). The image at http://forums.wcha.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5326&d=1215537536 shows the same style ring on a stem.

The decks on your canoe may have been replaced in a prior repair. Another possibility is that the painter rings and flag pole sockets were not mounted on this canoe but simply shipped with it to be installed on another canoe. There also could have been a mistake in the records although this is not common. Hundred year old canoes often have a few mysteries.

Benson

 

[Michael Grace]

Another possibility is that this is a different number. It sure looks like a CS grade Otca, maybe 17', that had no flag pole sockets in the decks.

 

[Benson Gray]

Another possibility is that this is a different number. It sure looks like a CS grade Otca, maybe 17', that had no flag pole sockets in the decks.

For example, the Old Town with serial number 63747 is a 17 foot long Otca in CS grade with nothing on the decks that shipped to Madison, Wisconsin on February 16th, 1921 as shown below.

Benson

 

[Steve Bunge]

Interesting. I will have to see if I can get a closer look at the numbering because when I got the boat I was living in Madison, WI and I know it had been in that garage in Madison for a long time.

I assume that the CS grade means less desirable wood species (no Mahogany).

 

[Michael Grace]

CS means "Common Sense", and it is the standard-grade Old Town. Mahogany may be more expensive and celebrated (it's a great for woodworking and it is beautiful), but there is nothing at all wrong with a CS-grade canoe. You can restore it to functionality and gorgeous appearance, and you'll have something to be very proud of.

 

[Steve Bunge]

Just curious about the designation. Definitely excited to restore it and paddle it on lake in (or near) the Boundary Waters in Northern MN.

As soon as we clear some space in my friend's shop I will get working on it.

 

[Michael Grace]

These forums will be a great resource for you. People are very willing to provide support and everyone will be happy if you share your progress.

Clearly you joined the forums; did you also join the WCHA? If not, please consider it. The WCHA is a non-profit membership organization, and memberships are what keep these forums going (along with everything else that the WCHA does).

Enjoy your new project, and happy paddling once the canoe is restored.

 

[Steve Bunge]

I did join the WCHA. I was amazed at the depth of discussion when I found this place searching for information about restoration. Thank you for the encouragement.

 

[Benson Gray]

I assume that the CS grade means less desirable wood species (no Mahogany).

This is Old Town's middle grade as Michael mentioned. See https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/15564/ if you want more details. Thanks for joining the WCHA and good luck with the restoration,

Benson