Outside stems without a keel?

[boono]

Filling the canvas on my OTCA restoration and worrying about the brass stem bands covering up the seam/staples at the stems. Wondering about using outside stems to better cover that seam, but I don't really want to put a keel on this boat. Anybody ever use outside stems without a keel? Seems like you would have to have a long, thin taper to blend the stem into the hull lines, and that it might be really fragile? Any advice would sure be appreciated.

thanks,

Noel

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Hi Noel,

This advice comes from someone who can strip wood and cane seats but who has never restored or built a canoe (ME, in other words...). Canoes that originally have outside stems have longer rails... so you may have to extend the rails and someone else here will probably comment on that. I think your plan for tapering the bottom portion against the hull is what folks do who want outside stems and no keel. Someone will probably add to that.

 

[davelanthier]

Have you ever tried bending outside stems? Not easy. If your canvasing job is deceint the filler and paint will hide any imperfections.

 

[Dave Osborn]

You may want to try using an epoxy fairing or filling compound to fill and build up the ends where the staples are.
Also, I believe Martin Ferwerda applies outside stems without a keel on canoes that he builds on an original Thompson form. Find his name on the members list for contact/website info.
To me there is something cool about outside stems finished bright...!

 

[Chuck Hoffhine]

I thought canoes, at least Old Towns, that were originally manufactured for outside stems had inside stems with a wider than 'normal' leading edge to accomodate the outside stem. True?

 

[boono]

Thanks everybody for the thoughts so far. This canoe did have outside stems originally--so I actually have the outside stems and the outwales are still long enough the fit over them. However, the canoe also originally had a keel, which I'd prefer to leave off. I'd be curious to know whether OT used a slightly wider stem when outside stems were planned. I've already canvassed and done 3 coats of Ekofill filler, so I no longer have access to super accurate dimensions of the face of the inner stem--but with the canvas and filler the stem face is between 5/8" and 11/16", which very nicely matches the width of the cove side of the outside stems. How thick are other stems out there? Using the outside stems would require a lot of wood to be faired away (to point of fragility??) and should I, or another future owner, ever want to re-install the keel, the outside stems wouldn't be usable. Hmmm?

Dave, about the epoxy fairing compound build up--any issues with the fairing compound being harder/more brittle and "chippy"/less flexible than the filled canvas?

thanks, Noel

 

[Dan Miller]

I'd be curious to know whether OT used a slightly wider stem when outside stems were planned.

Using the outside stems would require a lot of wood to be faired away (to point of fragility??) and should I, or another future owner, ever want to re-install the keel, the outside stems wouldn't be usable. Hmmm?

thanks, Noel

Yes, Old Town did leave the inside stems thicker when installing outside stems.

And yes, your outside stems would not be usable if the keel was reinstalled. Or at least, someone would have a bit of a scarfing project.

Dan

 

[Dave Osborn]

Noel,
I have only applied the Quick Fair to a couple of canoes on the stems after filling. I wouldn't have done it, but I found the stuff to be tough as hell. I actually took a lump of it that had hardened and secured it in a vise, then hit it with a hammer. Before I put it on the stems, I did an experiment on some scrap filled canvas. I was impressed. That's not to say if you bang the end it won't chip. You wouldn't want to do a big build up to narrow your stem for a stem band. I used it to fill in some pocs and pits that would have looked ugly if I had not applied the compound to square it off.
It also makes for a better looking fit of the stem bands.

 

[boono]

Thanks guys,

I may try the epoxy fairing compound to just clean up the stem face a little bit--If that didn't give the results I was hoping for, I suppose I could shape and add the outside stems later.

Noel