Pernicious Atavist
Canoe Sailing Publisher
Just trying to get an idea to see who does what: Do YOU read Canoe Sailing Magazine?
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Out of Curiosity....
- Thread starter Pernicious Atavist
- Start date
OP
OP
Pernicious Atavist
Canoe Sailing Publisher
Maybe I should have asked why not, if you don't? I need to know these things to publish a better magazine...thanks for your help!
OP
OP
Pernicious Atavist
Canoe Sailing Publisher
Ah, fair enough. Thanks!
Of course...it is free and readily available, but, if you ain't interested, you ain't!
Of course...it is free and readily available, but, if you ain't interested, you ain't!
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Andre Cloutier
Firestarter. Wicked Firestarter.
I read
and re-read it. got the t-shirt too, and lost the hat in Georgian Bay going over the high side on the 16/30. Solicit more photos, both of action and equipment/rigging so its a visual feast too.
and re-read it. got the t-shirt too, and lost the hat in Georgian Bay going over the high side on the 16/30. Solicit more photos, both of action and equipment/rigging so its a visual feast too.
OP
OP
Pernicious Atavist
Canoe Sailing Publisher
Andre--I'm always asking for photos and articles! I cruise the forums and Internet at large looking for new content. [I feel like a stalker.] I have a whole lineup in the works right now. That may actually be the hardest part--bringing my readers fresh content!
Now...don't YOU have something to share?
Sorry 'bout the hat!
Now...don't YOU have something to share?
Sorry 'bout the hat!
john hupfield
fire starter/wood burner
Ed, I love the concept but I'm on dial-up. This goes with being a reclusive bushwacker addicted to small non-current,non-commercial boat concepts. However this also requires up to 20 minutes time to open any page.
After scraping,sanding,varnishing and splicing all day I don't have the patience. Tis unfortunate.
John
After scraping,sanding,varnishing and splicing all day I don't have the patience. Tis unfortunate.
John
pklonowski
Unrepentant Canoeist
I read it, and sometimes re-read it. Will be happy to add content, once I get a canoe rigged & under way... It's been many years since I sailed a canoe, but I hope to remedy that situation before many more years pass.
People do ask about the hat... the concept of sailing a canoe sounds very tippy to many folks, but at least the idea gets planted!
People do ask about the hat... the concept of sailing a canoe sounds very tippy to many folks, but at least the idea gets planted!
OP
OP
Pernicious Atavist
Canoe Sailing Publisher
Thanks, Paul! I didn't realize you weren't 'underway.' I'm sure we all get the 'tippy' response from the unclean...ooops...I mean the unaware....!
John, in the beginning someone suggested I provide a pdf version of the magazine, but that wouldn't help unless I printed and mailed it, and charged for the service. Maybe you can find your way to getting a satellite hookup. Dunno. Sorry you're off the grid, in any event.
John, in the beginning someone suggested I provide a pdf version of the magazine, but that wouldn't help unless I printed and mailed it, and charged for the service. Maybe you can find your way to getting a satellite hookup. Dunno. Sorry you're off the grid, in any event.
I read it, look at the pictures, and follow your forum there. However, I will confess to not having completely read every article and letter. The advertising is distracting so I tend to spend more time on sites with less (like this one).
Benson
Benson
OP
OP
Pernicious Atavist
Canoe Sailing Publisher
I understand about the advertising, Benson. Are you saying the ads on the forum page are distracting, or the ads in general? At one time I had no ads on the forum. We all realize ads are needed to pay the freight, though I wish they weren't necessary.
I recognize that the advertisements in both your forum and the home pages "pay the freight" and annoying would probably have been a more accurate description than distracting.
There is a stage where the 'signal to noise ratio' becomes too high in an information resource and people stop bothering. There was a time when unmanaged Usenet newsgroups were very popular ways to share information on the internet. I used to regularly follow rec.boats.paddle, rec.boats.building, etc. Eventually, they became swamped with advertising, flame wars, trolls, sick puppies, and other problems so most people have stopped reading them. The managed forums have now replaced them. I also used to follow the Northeast Paddlers Message Board at http://www.npmb.com/ but eventually got annoyed by the advertising and haven't been back in years. I have stopped listening to the radio and watching television for the same reasons.
My point is simply that you will need to manage the content to advertising ratio carefully if you want to build a successful magazine or any other information resource. I also recognize the irony of this comming from me after I have spent years scanning antique canoe advertising and making it available on CDs with Dan Miller. Good luck,
Benson
There is a stage where the 'signal to noise ratio' becomes too high in an information resource and people stop bothering. There was a time when unmanaged Usenet newsgroups were very popular ways to share information on the internet. I used to regularly follow rec.boats.paddle, rec.boats.building, etc. Eventually, they became swamped with advertising, flame wars, trolls, sick puppies, and other problems so most people have stopped reading them. The managed forums have now replaced them. I also used to follow the Northeast Paddlers Message Board at http://www.npmb.com/ but eventually got annoyed by the advertising and haven't been back in years. I have stopped listening to the radio and watching television for the same reasons.
My point is simply that you will need to manage the content to advertising ratio carefully if you want to build a successful magazine or any other information resource. I also recognize the irony of this comming from me after I have spent years scanning antique canoe advertising and making it available on CDs with Dan Miller. Good luck,
Benson
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john hupfield
fire starter/wood burner
As says Benson,managing the Ads and flashing snow bears and whatnot makes all of the difference.
Not saying you are doing it wrong and it is certainly not your fault that cable and decent fibre optic lines dont make it to my door,and I don't mind seeing and reading the Ads on the opening page,but every page?
You asked.
John
Not saying you are doing it wrong and it is certainly not your fault that cable and decent fibre optic lines dont make it to my door,and I don't mind seeing and reading the Ads on the opening page,but every page?
You asked.
John
OP
OP
Pernicious Atavist
Canoe Sailing Publisher
Yeah, I'm afraid advertisers want as much as they can get, and it's already darn near impossible to get their support. I need to give them every page. Do note, if you will, that I control what ads do go in--no Viagra or gambling, etc., and I do not allow top-of-page banner ads like so many other online pubs. Yes--I have turned down ads I thought were wrong for my readers.
I do appreciate your input, guys. It's exactly what I need to be aware of if I'm to do this as best I can. None of you are naive enough to believe it runs for free, and I thank you for your consideration.
Here's an example of what I'm up against, in addition to a marginal economy. Oh, these guys make money:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cmps_index.php
http://sailing.about.com/
http://www.sailingworld.com/
http://www.paddling.net/
http://www.kayakonline.com/
Don't want to belabor it, but I have to be somewhat competitive to get whatever ad dollars I can.
I do appreciate your feedback and support!
I do appreciate your input, guys. It's exactly what I need to be aware of if I'm to do this as best I can. None of you are naive enough to believe it runs for free, and I thank you for your consideration.
Here's an example of what I'm up against, in addition to a marginal economy. Oh, these guys make money:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cmps_index.php
http://sailing.about.com/
http://www.sailingworld.com/
http://www.paddling.net/
http://www.kayakonline.com/
Don't want to belabor it, but I have to be somewhat competitive to get whatever ad dollars I can.
I do appreciate your feedback and support!
pklonowski
Unrepentant Canoeist
I find the ads easy enough to ignore, and whenever I want to look at the REI website, I usually to go there via the CSM site.
That said, I grew up in a barn with six siblings & some neighborhood kids who seemed to live there as well. In high school I was accustomed to doing math & physics homework while there was a hockey game going on in the next room. So maybe I stay focussed more than some? My wife thinks I'm just half deaf, though the ear doc says otherwise.
As for getting under way, the major repair job on my cedar strip canoe is over the hump, waiting for a couple of my kids' projects to get either done or abandoned (deadline is March 6th... if they're not done, they're "burn pile"). then I start work on the gunnels, which shouldn't take long... after them, it'll be mast, spars, leeboards... hoping to hoist a sail this summer! It's probably time to re-read Todd's book, and talk to him offline about making me a sail.
That said, I grew up in a barn with six siblings & some neighborhood kids who seemed to live there as well. In high school I was accustomed to doing math & physics homework while there was a hockey game going on in the next room. So maybe I stay focussed more than some? My wife thinks I'm just half deaf, though the ear doc says otherwise.
As for getting under way, the major repair job on my cedar strip canoe is over the hump, waiting for a couple of my kids' projects to get either done or abandoned (deadline is March 6th... if they're not done, they're "burn pile"). then I start work on the gunnels, which shouldn't take long... after them, it'll be mast, spars, leeboards... hoping to hoist a sail this summer! It's probably time to re-read Todd's book, and talk to him offline about making me a sail.
pklonowski said:My wife thinks I'm just half deaf, though the ear doc says otherwise.
Selective Hearing Loss is a blessing to those of us with an active case...
I look at the CSM forums once a day to see if there is anything new (usually there's not). I don't and probably won't use myspace, twitter, and the others. Along with the long-standing Yahoo sailing_canoes listserv (and this board), aren't you running the risk of taking a very small target audience and diluting it further with each technogizmo added?
OP
OP
Pernicious Atavist
Canoe Sailing Publisher
Dan Miller said:
I have been advised by online publishing "pros" to use as many gizmos as possible. (Notably the USC Knight Media Center and Annenburg Journalism Review) Instead of dilution, Facebook, Twitter (neither of which I like doing) and the Blog find folks who are using said gizmos and have not find CSM yet. I've had an increased registration rate since adding those platforms. (My traffic stats seem to support that, also.) I've had several readers I know found CSM via Facebook and have had several contact me positively about those gizmos, thus justifying them. No one has complained, and why would they since they're not underfoot?
I'm not sure what would get more folks using the forum. (This WCHA forum doesn't have something new every day, either, nor would I expect it to.) This is a publication and not purely a forum, the forum is but a component of the product, not its heart.
The information--articles and such--isn't diluted, but repeated in those sites as well. Again, advertisers like that and it's worth doing if it better serves the reader and attracts ad money. If it hurt the readers, I wouldn't use those other platforms regardless of the advertisers. Would be nice if I had a paper version (which I prefer), or a dues-collecting club that made the bucks, and the online was an amendment to it, but that's not how it is.
Again, thanks for the input!
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Csm
I usually visit once a day or less to see if there is anything new. The ads don't bother me too much and I did learn something about bamboo from the ads, so at least they are appropriate as you say.
I used to be able to visit the forum without logging in, which I prefer. I visit the forum less now due to the login requirement.
I usually visit once a day or less to see if there is anything new. The ads don't bother me too much and I did learn something about bamboo from the ads, so at least they are appropriate as you say.
I used to be able to visit the forum without logging in, which I prefer. I visit the forum less now due to the login requirement.
I don't doubt that using the other sites drive traffic to the mag, but my point is that by using them, you end up with lots of smaller communities rather than one unified one. I'm not going to see messages posted to facebook, for example, nor are folks there likely to cross post where I do frequent.
OP
OP
Pernicious Atavist
Canoe Sailing Publisher
Fitz, I had the sign in for the forum from the beginning (well, as far as I could tell!). Without it the forum would be spammed to death. Ya know, you can stayed signed in by clicking the 'Remember Me' box below your name upon sign-in.
I see what you say, Dan, and it's a concern, of course.
I see what you say, Dan, and it's a concern, of course.
