Larry Westlake
Designer/Builder
Caution. Long post ahead.
Refresh beverage before proceeding.
I am requesting help identifying the maker and age of the canoe described below.
I'm not concerned yet about identifying the model, just in knowing if its significantly older than the run of mill beat-up canoes I usually see.
I've reported everything I think may be helpful as diagnostic. Your suggestions for whatever else I should look for as age indicators would be helpful.
I didn't get any measurements. I stumbled on this boat quite unprepared.
The bow profile and sheer look Chestnutty to me, but I have only seen Cnuts much younger than this canoe appears to be. I could not find a serial number.
Some of the features agree with Dan Miller's forum-published characteristics for pre-fire Chestnuts, but the capped gunwale is not mentioned in his notes. I read an article years ago about a surviving early Cnut canoe named "Psyche" that (I think) had capped rails, but I have misplaced that article.
The heart-shaped, strongly arched, and thin-edged decks are mentioned in the WCHA forum and in Dan's notes for early Cnuts. Did anyone ELSE do that? The wood visible in the split deck looks like maple, which I don't remember seeing on Chestnuts. The hole for the painter ring bolt is about where I would expect Chestnut's to be.
Stemheads have both been patched, so I can't determine if they were originally squared as per Dan's notes for earlies.
The capped gunwales may be renewals, I could see no old fastening holes and they are in fair shape except for patching at the ends. When the canvas was replaced, they may have been put back with nails in the same holes. I believe original fastenings should have been brass escutcheon pins, they are now copper flatheads. Or these capped rails may be a renewal dodge to hide mangled rib ends, not faithful to the original. The tops of all the ribs are bevelled to insert under the inwale, and appear very uniform.
Inwale is NOT tapered in depth. If tapered in width it is very slight and only for a short distance. I did not look carefully enough for this, drat.
The odd pronounced splay of the cantribs is new to me. Those straplike underdeck ribs are also not as usual for the Chestnuts I've seen. As well as being thinner than the regular ribs they are also narrower instead of wider.
It has only one thwart, quite a bit thicker in the middle than the ends, and the necks near the ends have a nearly circular cross-section. Unlike the rather coarse & flat Cnut thwarts I've seen. Thwart seems original - ends fractured apparently long after the recanvassing, were clumsily fixed with awful steel brackets now almost eaten away by rust.
Planking is wide, 3-1/2" or more, and there are only two gore strakes, taken to quite narrow tips - one actually comes to a point. Visible in some of the photos.
Seats are right up under the gunwales except for washers between - no correction for the sheer angle, but possibly this is not as original. In any case they are both in a flattish section of sheer. Seats do look original otherwise, and fit to the sides correctly. The seat lacing was replaced with birch ply, now turned back to veneer.
Canvas is glued to the boat with some flexy gorp (not plastic resin), and not filled smooth, which looks very amateurish, especially compared to the nicely-refitted rails.
Canoe apparently has been kept in a closed, sound, dry, and shaded boatshed for an undeterminable # of decades. A half-inch puncture hole with an age-failed patch below waterline probably finally prevented use. All the circumstances of its survival suggest it is of some age, but I'd like something more factual to base a decision on.
I already have enough aka too many projects, however I'd hate to let this go if it is an uncommon survivor.
I hope someone on the forum can help guess its age and make.
Pix are spread over two posts - overall views in this one, detail pix in the next. I think this canoe will be of interest to the foruminifers.
Refresh beverage before proceeding.
I am requesting help identifying the maker and age of the canoe described below.
I'm not concerned yet about identifying the model, just in knowing if its significantly older than the run of mill beat-up canoes I usually see.
I've reported everything I think may be helpful as diagnostic. Your suggestions for whatever else I should look for as age indicators would be helpful.
I didn't get any measurements. I stumbled on this boat quite unprepared.
The bow profile and sheer look Chestnutty to me, but I have only seen Cnuts much younger than this canoe appears to be. I could not find a serial number.
Some of the features agree with Dan Miller's forum-published characteristics for pre-fire Chestnuts, but the capped gunwale is not mentioned in his notes. I read an article years ago about a surviving early Cnut canoe named "Psyche" that (I think) had capped rails, but I have misplaced that article.
The heart-shaped, strongly arched, and thin-edged decks are mentioned in the WCHA forum and in Dan's notes for early Cnuts. Did anyone ELSE do that? The wood visible in the split deck looks like maple, which I don't remember seeing on Chestnuts. The hole for the painter ring bolt is about where I would expect Chestnut's to be.
Stemheads have both been patched, so I can't determine if they were originally squared as per Dan's notes for earlies.
The capped gunwales may be renewals, I could see no old fastening holes and they are in fair shape except for patching at the ends. When the canvas was replaced, they may have been put back with nails in the same holes. I believe original fastenings should have been brass escutcheon pins, they are now copper flatheads. Or these capped rails may be a renewal dodge to hide mangled rib ends, not faithful to the original. The tops of all the ribs are bevelled to insert under the inwale, and appear very uniform.
Inwale is NOT tapered in depth. If tapered in width it is very slight and only for a short distance. I did not look carefully enough for this, drat.
The odd pronounced splay of the cantribs is new to me. Those straplike underdeck ribs are also not as usual for the Chestnuts I've seen. As well as being thinner than the regular ribs they are also narrower instead of wider.
It has only one thwart, quite a bit thicker in the middle than the ends, and the necks near the ends have a nearly circular cross-section. Unlike the rather coarse & flat Cnut thwarts I've seen. Thwart seems original - ends fractured apparently long after the recanvassing, were clumsily fixed with awful steel brackets now almost eaten away by rust.
Planking is wide, 3-1/2" or more, and there are only two gore strakes, taken to quite narrow tips - one actually comes to a point. Visible in some of the photos.
Seats are right up under the gunwales except for washers between - no correction for the sheer angle, but possibly this is not as original. In any case they are both in a flattish section of sheer. Seats do look original otherwise, and fit to the sides correctly. The seat lacing was replaced with birch ply, now turned back to veneer.
Canvas is glued to the boat with some flexy gorp (not plastic resin), and not filled smooth, which looks very amateurish, especially compared to the nicely-refitted rails.
Canoe apparently has been kept in a closed, sound, dry, and shaded boatshed for an undeterminable # of decades. A half-inch puncture hole with an age-failed patch below waterline probably finally prevented use. All the circumstances of its survival suggest it is of some age, but I'd like something more factual to base a decision on.
I already have enough aka too many projects, however I'd hate to let this go if it is an uncommon survivor.
I hope someone on the forum can help guess its age and make.
Pix are spread over two posts - overall views in this one, detail pix in the next. I think this canoe will be of interest to the foruminifers.
