Odd 17 footer

[Canoeal]

Today I purchased a slightly odd 17' Canoe. Ay first I thought it was a Kennebec Katahdin, but on closer look it appears not to be so. I am thinking some sort of Thompson, maybe a Camp model. I is 17' X 33" wide and has a Thomopson-ish deck. It only had two thwarts, and no holes for a miidle one.It doesn't have a double floor , but it has narrower half ribs Installed from the inside. One thwart is Mahogany, the other is not. Seats look like they may have been replaced and are not caned now but covered with leather. It has an outside stem and a very straight keel line. I have taken some pictures of it ,but will get better ones when it is dry out. Any Ideas?

 

[Dan Miller]

I'm thinking Thompson Indian. The half ribs were added by a later owner...

 

[Dan Lindberg]

I'd also go with the Indian, the Camp is a bit wider at 34".

Dan

 

[Dave Wermuth]

You might want to check for metal straps under the decks. A thompson thing. Plus the tops of the ribs on Thompsons I've seen have the corners clipped off at a 45 degree angle. Is the planking parallel to the waterline?

 

[Canoeal]

The ribs are clipped. I guessed the half ribs were added, But I looked at too early of a catalog on the Indian showining the rouned stems. Any way I can guess a date? Seller said he was in it in the late thirties, but I don't know that. Stems are of quartered Oak.

 

[Dan Miller]

Long nose Indian was offered 1928 to about 1950. Dave Osborn put together a guide to dating Hiawatha models based on woods used - it can be found on my ID guide at http://dragonflycanoe.com/id/ - the same specs may be true for Indians.

The key feature of the Camp Canoe is that it has 3" tumblehome.

 

[Canoeal]

Don't see that much tumblehome maybe an inch, certainly not three. I'll check on the woods today...

 

[Canoeal]

My best guess

After looking ay it closely, here is my best guess. I is indeed an Indian Model. Probably from the thirties. Originally it had spruce Gunnels and maple trim.(as noted by 1 maple thwart and spuce inwales). It must have been repaired sevral times with a major repair in the
1940's probably at Hack's Canoes on the Rancocas Creek, near where it was kept. At that time they probably replaced the seats and outwales (hence the oak seats and mahogany outwales). This may have been when the half ribs (Old Town style and what Thompson was moving to) at that time.
So, it is a Thompson deck straps and all, of unknown year. If I haven't sold it by then You can all look at it at Assembly and give your opinions then. If I sell it, this is where I will leave it.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Years ago I looked at all the Thomson catalogs and "charted" the models and chariteristics. It was an early version of the CD, so it may not have had all the years included but;

The long end Indian was offered from about 1923 to 1942.

It was not in catalogs from 43 to 48.

The Indian name reappeared in 1949 to 1953, but it then was shown with the traditional round end (ie, Old Town style), and may have been a revised early Ranger.

In 1955 the Ranger was relisted and possibly with the long end.
Most of the Rangers had the traditional round end.

BTW, the Hiawathe was listed from 1921 to 1943, came with half ribs and was described as "flat bottomed".

For Indians,
Spruce was listed for rails starting in 1922 and went to 1942, when oak was listed. Maple was listed for seats in 1924, and remained to 42, no material was listed for the decks or thwarts.

Dan

ps, the Camp was listed as being built to a "US Forestry Spec", what ever that was, and was only listed in the catalogs in 1934 and 1939.

 

[Dave Osborn]

I agree w/ you guys..... Indian with after thought half ribs added.
Wish it were a 15'er....I'd be at the head of the line to see it at Paul Smiths.

 

[Canoeal]

her are some pictures from today. Should be my last post on this one.
Thank for the help. AL