New 1923 16' AA Otca

Bo Saxbe · May 13, 2020

Hi everybody, I figured I should say hello after joining the site today, and becoming a wood canvas canoe owner yesterday.

I'd been thinking about upgrading my thrashed ABS for a while and after taking a paddle with my family over the weekend in which big chunks of rotten wood from the gunnels constantly broke off, I hopped on Craigslist and voila, a recently posted 1923 Old Town Otca I could afford, in the fancy mahogany trim no less.

I couldn't resist, so made the three hour drive down south to pick it up. Despite having been restored in a group class with Jerry Stelmok back in the nineties, it's cosmetically rough. Currently missing both stem bands, but seems solid and straight. It does need varnish and a new paint job but I think I can get away with light overcoats inside and out this season and then do a full recanvas next year. I'll probably have a few questions...

I'm lucky to have had some wood canvas maintenance and repair tutorials from Schuyler Thompson as a staffman at Keewaydin camps, and thousands of hours on the water in them as well, but a full recanvas will be new for me. I'm looking forward to it.

Here's a quick question for starters though: the Otca doesn't have a center thwart or yoke at the balance point. I generally prefer to solo portage. Is that something I can/should add? I'd also like to build several wannigans for camping and am wondering if I should add some half ribs for a bit more strength underneath.

I'll add a few photos here too.

Otca getting a ride home

Bo Saxbe
May 13, 2020

Taking the canoe back to Seattle from Olympia

Serial

Bo Saxbe
May 13, 2020

Serial 80978 16

Up on the slings

Bo Saxbe
May 13, 2020

Salt rimed Mahogany

Bo Saxbe
May 13, 2020

Nice 20" decks though

Color coming out after rinse

Bo Saxbe
May 13, 2020

Needs fresh varnish for sure

Black paint is different...

Bo Saxbe
May 13, 2020

Looks better after wash. Gets hot quick though

Ribs and planks look good

Bo Saxbe
May 13, 2020

Build order, thank you Benson

Bo Saxbe
May 13, 2020

JClearwater · May 13, 2020

Bo,

Congratulations on your new purchase and welcome to the WCHA. When it come to replacing the canvas you will find lots of help on the forum. As far as solo carrying the canoe you might think of making yourself a removable padded yoke. In Cliff Jacobson's book, "Canoeing Wild Rivers," he sketched out the dimensions of a good yoke. I made one years ago for a fiberglass Old Town that weighed in around 75 lbs. It worked good and I didn't have to modify the canoe to use it. I have used it on a variety of different canoes since then. I could take a picture of it tomorrow and post it if you want.

Jim

Bo Saxbe · May 13, 2020

Thanks Jim, I'd appreciate that!

Makes a lot of sense. I'd certainly rather not add new holes in such nice wood.

Bo Saxbe · May 14, 2020

Few more pictures. Took off the outwales and started the first exterior sand. I'm doing the lazy option for this season and just slapping paint onto the old canvas and new varnish over the fading layer inside.

I decided to paint first, varnish second, but am open to recommendations for the reverse. I thought maybe better to overlap varnish over paint at edges, and it would be worse to have paint drips on new varnish than the reverse?

There are a few spots of rot at the tips of some ribs. I'll scarf in fresh wood over the winter but for now will probably add a little epoxy. Maybe it's better just to leave as is for now? What do you think - if it's only for a season does it make sense to put in some epoxy filler or will I just be giving myself a headache a little way down the road...

I did add a few drops to the gap in the stern deck and clamped things down as I was sanding.

So many brush marks and drips in old paint

Bo Saxbe
May 14, 2020

Probably house paint or something similar

Original paint doesn't cover top of canvas

Bo Saxbe
May 14, 2020

Outwales popped off

Bo Saxbe
May 14, 2020

Initial exterior sanding. Hidden pinstripe

Bo Saxbe
May 14, 2020

Stern deck

Bo Saxbe
May 14, 2020

A little bit of the rot on the peak of the deck

Norm Hein · May 15, 2020

Bo,
That is going to be a great Canoe. I'll be watching your progress. Nice canoe hauler too! Did you say what color you are going with?

Norm

Bo Saxbe · May 15, 2020

Hey Norm, Thanks! Your hauler looks just as good. Gas milage is terrible with the '72 suburban but it does look nice under a canoe.

I'll stick with recoating in the original black for this season but most likely will change it up after recanvas.

The black is... interesting. I
have owned black cars and they are a pain to keep looking clean. There's also the fact it heats up so fast. I love the classic green but maybe an off white or cream? I'm a fair hand with a brush so I'll probably make up a trim design at some point. Might ask the forums for input on a few different pinstripe or graphic options.

Norm Hein · May 15, 2020

Check out the two tone, Green/White paint on JAM010148 50 pounder that is advertised in the WCHA Classifieds. It's very sharp.

Bo Saxbe · May 15, 2020

Question: Should I try to clean the old brass fasteners or just replace them? I've read baking soda and salt, followed by lemon juice can work.

Anyone spent the time to freshen up used fasteners? Worth the effort?

Old brass fasteners

Bo Saxbe
May 15, 2020

Bo Saxbe · May 15, 2020

Hmmm. Green-white combo hits all the high points. Thanks Norm!

mccloud · May 15, 2020

I save, clean, and re-install all the brass that is not damaged. Heads of screws or bolts get polished on a buffing wheel. Hacksaw blade gets run thru the slot to clean it. Once shiny, a shot of spray lacquer to the head, and install. TM..

Andy Hutyera · May 15, 2020

If you have a friend with a rock tumbler or a reloader with a similar tumbler for shell brass they can restore your screws nicely with little effort.

Fitz · May 15, 2020

I find the old screws are much better quality than the stuff you can buy today.

Bo Saxbe · May 15, 2020

Thanks guys! I lost two that stripped out in the slot as I removed them but all the rest are totally salvageable. I'll ask my lapidary buddies if I can borrow a tumbler.

Bo Saxbe · May 15, 2020

Quick shout out to Jim Clearwater for sending me plans for a removable carrying yoke made from a motor mount. Great solution.

MGC · May 15, 2020

Fitz said:
I find the old screws are much better quality than the stuff you can buy today.

Not only that, the sizes are not the same. There are significant variations if you measure them. I save all boat brass and re-use it if it's in decent shape. I do not like to polish up the old screws. They have a patina that is impossible to duplicate. I clean them, give them a very light buff, repair the slots if necessary and then re-use them. I try to move screws with bunged up slots to places where I don't need to turn them very hard to install them. I use a bit of bees wax or soap on the threads..and pre-drill. Always try to select the correct driver bit to fit the screw slot...they are not all the same! An undersized driver bit will slip out of the slot and wreck it. It's inevitable that you'll need to replace some screws and if you don't have the right ones in your "collection", you may need to buy some new hardware. I've had pretty good luck with the bolt depot...https://www.boltdepot.com/Wood_screws_Slotted_flat_head_Brass_6.aspx?nv=l
They have a good selection of slotted screws...you should use slotted screws on an Old Town (or any other Maine canoe), not Frearson or Philips.
Some folks will use silicon bronze in leu of brass....another thing I try not to do is mix brass and silicon bronze... Sil Bronze is great for a new build but I won't use it on a restoration.

Bo Saxbe · May 15, 2020

Thanks MGC. I'm also finding some sneaky little staples somebody wicked used on the canvas. Corroding, obviously. I'd be more upset but this canvas will be pretty temporary. Hoping the wood underneath isn't too damaged by the oxidation.

The paint I'm removing is awful. So many drips and brush marks and thin spots.

Little devils

Bo Saxbe
May 15, 2020

Original paint job: so many drips to sand

Bo Saxbe
May 15, 2020

Dan Miller · May 16, 2020

Bo Saxbe said:
Thanks MGC. I'm also finding some sneaky little staples somebody wicked used on the canvas.

Staples are standard. these days, though those of us who feel sorry for future restorers will use stainless steel or monel staples. One former WCHA president, now on the other side of the grand portage, once said using steel staples was no big deal, as by the time they rusted out, he'd be long gone (guess he was right

)

Bo Saxbe · May 17, 2020

I guess the staples aren't a major problem, but I do see half dollar size patches of rust that are forming around some of them. I think the corrosion is acting like a fricative between the canvas and the wood, to the detriment of both. I suppose traditional methods have drawbacks too, and these staples date back to the mid nineties: so they worked ok for 25 years. They will be easier to pull eventually too...

I was able to get a few coats of paint over the sanded canvas but won't have pictures for a bit. Had to suspend operations due to inclement weather so everything was tucked away. Gave me a chance to start sanding the trim. I found a greenstick fracture at the end of one of the outwhales but it epoxied back together fine. It's nice to see good wood under the salt damage!

Epoxy repair

Bo Saxbe
May 17, 2020

Last 8 inches of the outwhale was fractured in two. Epoxy fix.

Bo Saxbe · May 17, 2020

You see a red boat and you want to paint it black

Don't. Don't do it. I'm already regretting repainting in the previous owners color. Black is a bad choice. The sun came out in full force as I was doing the second coat and the boat got HOT. It was like painting a pot bellied stove after a while. I'd be worried about it on a trailer on a hot sunny day. Even with a temperature controlled setting, the final result immediately started looking dusty/dirty. I suppose once the shiny side is in the water it won't matter, but I'm not a fan.

At least it will only be a single season with this canvas.