"needs paint only" question

[Ossineke]

Greetings from MI,

We have acquired a 17' 6" Shell Lake that had a total restoration about 10 years ago. Everything still really nice except the paint on the canvas is very dull and stained. Canvas itself and wood appear all in great shape (stored indoors). Our thoughts are to sand the hull and apply fresh paint 3-4 coats. Previously we have only painted on new canvas, never painted a canoe previously painted.

Questions: Before painting: A) is it best to sand this craft down to the canvas (filler) or only to the undercoat if it has one? B) Should we use an orbital sander and what grit might you suggest?

Also it "appears" to have painted-over outer stem and canvas is tucked/fastened under the stem. We would like to sand the paint off the stem and have the wood exposed. Is this a good idea?

Hope your spring canoe outings are a joy- Bill

 

[Greg Nolan]

If your exterior stems are made from an open-pored wood such as ash or oak (and many canoes use such woods for exterior stems), simply sanding off the paint will likely not give you satisfactory results -- you will remove the paint from the tight part of the grain, but will not reach the paint in the open pores until you have removed a lot of wood -- and you don't have a lot of wood to work with. If you want to have the clear wood look, you had probably best remove the exterior stems and strip them with a chemical stripper. Even then, getting the paint out of the pores will be a chore, generally involving several applications of stripper, and often work with a small brass brush or some such tool, to get the paint out of the pores.

The attached pictures show the remnants of green paint in the pores of an exterior stem made of ash, after three applications of "Citristrip" remover. I'm next going to try an application of a methylene chloride stripper, and work at it with a brass brush. Some sanding will be needed when I'm done, but I don't expect to lose as much wood as if I had simply sanded to remove the paint.



One of our other canoes has exposed wood (mahogany) stems -- we like the look, and think it worth the trouble, which is why I'm stripping the ash stems on the canoe I'm in the process of restoring.



As to sanding the hull -- the reasons for sanding are to get rid of loose paint, feather the edges of any chips, and provide some tooth to help the new paint adhere. If your existing paint is sound, as it appears to be, I think there is no reason to sand down to the filler. Sand with 100 or 120 grip paper (an RO sander can speed the process) over the whole hull, and paint away. If you've removed the exterior stems for refinishing, there may be some chipping or rough spots on he hull at the stem that could be smoothed with spot putty (Bondo makes a spot putty -- not their auto body filler) before painting and replacing the refinished stem, which should be reseated using a bedding compound (sucgh as Dolfinite, or the compound made by Interlux). If you are repainting using the same color, one or two coats should be sufficient -- if you are changing colors, you may need more than one or two coats -- depends on the coverage of the new paint.

 

[JClearwater]

Bill,

I agree with everything Greg said. I am currently working on a boat that has outside stems that were painted. I stripped & stripped and there are still remnants in the open grain oak. I was hoping to varnish them but likely will paint them again the same color as the hull. If I did varnish they would pass the "10 foot rule" and look real good at 20' but because I'm near sighted I want it to look good up close so paint it is. The only way to approach success is to remove the stems and strip them. Trying to do it on the canoe will not work and because you are not going to re-canvas at this time you are better off leaving them alone.

Besides it's "patch and paddle" season. Get the old girl back on the water and have some fun!

Jim

 

[Ossineke]

Thanks Jim & Greg,
It appears I will just sand the stems to the wood and stain them mahogany like the thwarts. At 17' 6" some contrast would be nice.

For the hull do you believe OK to sand down one or two coats of the paint and apply 3-4 new coats? #100 or 120 grit like Greg mentioned might be best?

Thanks- Bill

 

[rpg51]

For what its worth - I'm a believer in the old adage if it ain't broke don't fix it. That canoe look gorgeous right now as is. I would leave it alone.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I heard or read somewhere that an application of Penetrol will brighten up old paint. Rub it on. I've not tried it. I don't know if you would want to sand off 2 or 3 coats. I'd sand it thoroughly with 150 or 220 and not worry about how many coats to remove, and then give it 1 or 2 coats, depending on how it looked. I think keels were originally all painted. But I could be wrong, (usually am). For painting, I've been using hi density foam rollers 4" with good results.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

I think you're right about keels being painted, Dave. But not necessarily outside stems. However, I personally like the look of the natural wood outlining the colored canvas all the way around, if this can be done without a hassle... and it may be more of a hassle if the canvas is still in good shape. It is certainly "correct" from an historical perspective to paint all of it the color of the boat though.

I know there was something Denis used to brighten up old paint... and he got the clue from a post here in Forums by Todd Bradshaw, I believe. Worked nicely to shine and cover scratches on an old canvas. It may have been an automotive product. I'll try to find the post.

 

[Greg Nolan]

do you believe OK to . . . apply 3-4 new coats?

I think one or two coats is quite enough. Additional coats all at once don't add much in the way of protection, and over time, multiple coats can actually lead to the paint cracking as they age and lose flexibility. In my opinion, it's better to save the extra paint for spot touch-ups if and when needed, and then after a few years, refreshing the whole paint job with another coat (or two). You'll get more mileage out of the paint if you spread those coats of paint into two paint jobs of two coats each a few years apart.

If your paint is thick-bodied, sanding with 100 or 120 grit paper may be enough; if the paint is lighter-bodied, you may wish a final sanding with 150 or finer grit -- finer that 220 is rarely useful, and can be counter-productive in not providing sufficient tooth for adherence of the new paint.