Morris Finishing Questions

[divedog]

I’m working away on my first restoration, a 17’ Morris, and have been experimenting with finishes. I really could use some advice!

Attached are pictures of the finish it had and its more current state. I know it had been attacked with a rotary sander and refinished at some time, and I believe a shellac layer was present, due to the gummy stuff encountered during stripping the hull.

I liked the dark color the ribs and planking had, but I haven’t had any real luck matching it on the various test pieces of old and new materials I have. I did note the Spruce gunwales were much lighter than the hull, and am not sure if that was original or not.
I mixed up a batch of the Morris formula posted on the forum and tried it on several test pieces. It looks much darker than my original finish, and it turned out very splotchy on the new rib material, especially the flat sawn pieces. I have seen a dark Morris that Kathy Klos has, and it’s not splotchy at all. What is the secret to avoiding all the splotchiness? Any opinions as to whether the before picture shows an original Morris color scheme?

I did some other experiments, too. I bought some Man O’ War satin varnish and tried adding a little transtint brown dye. I didn’t really like the look, which seemed like it was dirty or something. Also, it was hard to make the color look even.

I tried a couple sealer coats of amber shellac on some test pieces and really like the way it looks, but the can of Man O’ War satin varnish specifically says not to use over shellac. I usually follow directions from manufacturers, but I have also read that it is a myth that varnish won’t stick to shellac… The world also seems ripe with blanket disclaimers. Has anyone successfully used the Bullseye amber shellac under Man O’ War varnish? Am I just asking for trouble?

I am open to going with a natural finish, and came up with a couple of stain mixes that I can make the new ribs and scarfed section of inwale match the old pretty well. Straight varnish will be an option if I can avoid splotches. But, would that be heresy with a Morris?

Finally, the Man O’ War satin varnish can specifically says not to thin it, but most of the posts here mention thinning the first couple of coats. Any advice there?

Sorry for all the rambling… As a newbie, I’m trying to be cautious. Thanks for any advice you can give me!

Mike Wootton

 

[Greg Nolan]

I have an old Morris in need of restoration, and have been collecting photos of a pretty good number of Morrises for a while. Many of them are simply finished natural, or with a stain that does not pretend to be a match for the original color. So I would say that no heresy is involved -- even with a Morris.

I see that some of your seat rails are cracked between the cane holes.
The only actual work I have done on mine is to restore and refinish (natural) and reweave the seats. One of my seats had splits in the rails like yours. When you get to doing your seat(s), get in touch and I can show how I dealt with this:


in a way that closed the cracks and, I hope, has made the rail strong enough to not crack again.

Greg

 

[divedog]

Thanks for the advice, Greg. I've actually been thinking about my seats too (I may have a canoe problem). I cut the rope off the seats and saw that somebody chiseled little grooves in front of each hole for the rope to sit in . I've thought about cutting a shallow rabbet and inlaying fresh wood. I'll hit you up then about closing up the cracks, for sure. Something to look forward to.
.

 

[fred capenos]

I have used amber shellac many times under varnish. I cut it 50/50 with lacquer thinner, and I always use Epifanes varnish. I would do some test pieces if manOwar is a must. Fred

 

[Fitz]

Divedog: did the Morris pigeon blood finish come off when you stripped it? I have not refinished a Morris, but need to work on a couple soon. I have thought that rather than staining the hull, the old timers may have tinted the varnish to even the finish and avoid splotches. That being said, I have not had a great deal of success trying to tint varnish. I have had luck staining new wood with minwax then doing the hull with a couple coats of shellac before varnish. This helps hide new ribs and planking.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Even though Joe used MoW, I've never been fond of it. It always seems very thin to me, and I question how it's UV performance compares to "main line" marine finishes.

That said, I'd also recommend a test sample, you never know.

As for the "red", I have a Morris that when it gets refinished, it will be natural, as I don't like dark canoe interiors. It's your canoe, make it the way you want it.

McCloskey/Valspar 7505-05 Man O'War Spar Varnish

Dan

 

[Kathryn Klos]

I need to mention that Denis Kallery's Morris Stain Formula is just that-- his version; what worked for him. It's important to discuss other things that work. We also don't know if Morris experimented with different treatments from time-to-time-- i.e. used shellac instead of varnish, etc.

I have a stack of Morris receipts which essentially say who the Morris suppliers were, and when I have that information I'll pass it along... but it probably will only say they bought varnish and shellac and paint, etc. and not indicate how and where these things were used... our imaginations will always be at work, and experiments are sometimes necessary.

 

[divedog]

Pigeon Blood

Yes, the color came off completely during the stripping. It seemed more like a tinted topcoat material. I think I now have enough shades of min wax to stock a store and will keep trying until I find a good match for the new rib stock. Thanks for the advice, I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts about the finish in your Morrises once you start stripping them.

Divedog: did the Morris pigeon blood finish come off when you stripped it? I have not refinished a Morris, but need to work on a couple soon. I have thought that rather than staining the hull, the old timers may have tinted the varnish to even the finish and avoid splotches. That being said, I have not had a great deal of success trying to tint varnish. I have had luck staining new wood with minwax then doing the hull with a couple coats of shellac before varnish. This helps hide new ribs and planking.

 

[divedog]

I bought some lacquer thinner today and am going to try that. The MoW isn't a must, I got it because it's available locally, and I wanted to see how everything looked under a coat of varnish. I'll spring for a can of the good stuff before I start on the actual canoe. Glad I mentioned brand names in my post, sounds like I will have better luck with Epifanes. Thanks much!

I have used amber shellac many times under varnish. I cut it 50/50 with lacquer thinner, and I always use Epifanes varnish. I would do some test pieces if manOwar is a must. Fred

 

[divedog]

Thanks Dan, I'll plan on saving the MoW for something else. Appreciate the heads up!

Even though Joe used MoW, I've never been fond of it. It always seems very thin to me, and I question how it's UV performance compares to "main line" marine finishes.

That said, I'd also recommend a test sample, you never know.

As for the "red", I have a Morris that when it gets refinished, it will be natural, as I don't like dark canoe interiors. It's your canoe, make it the way you want it.

McCloskey/Valspar 7505-05 Man O'War Spar Varnish

Dan

 

[divedog]

And it worked very well, indeed! The canoe you showed me has a flawless finish. I couldn't tell the old wood from the new, and it had that deep, rich, antique-ie look throughout. I've got a lot to learn!

I need to mention that Denis Kallery's Morris Stain Formula is just that-- his version; what worked for him. It's important to discuss other things that work. We also don't know if Morris experimented with different treatments from time-to-time-- i.e. used shellac instead of varnish, etc.

I have a stack of Morris receipts which essentially say who the Morris suppliers were, and when I have that information I'll pass it along... but it probably will only say they bought varnish and shellac and paint, etc. and not indicate how and where these things were used... our imaginations will always be at work, and experiments are sometimes necessary.