more eBay dishonesty

Roger Young

display sample collector
item 320437999057. Seller very 'cutely' tries to say it is a model of a vintage canoe which he has been told is an Old Town from the '60's, but he's not sure. It's a Chinese repro model made in the past few years. Has no resemblance to any Old Town whatsoever. I alerted the seller to the correct info and politely suggested that it was dishonest to allude to any OT connections. He replied that I was the "second retard" to contact him.

Perhaps a few others might like to set him straight as well. Seems that every time someone with an actual vintage model makes a good sale (such as last week -$5300) some creep with one of these cheap, imitation copies thinks he can put one over on an unsuspecting newbie by trying to piggyback on a trade name. eBay needs to start banning this crap, or at least the phonies who make these exaggerated claims. Seems like "I'm not really sure" and "I don't really know" have become excuses for just about any misleading statement, even outright fraud.
Thats funny, I also sent him an email stating the fact that he was in error including a link to a cutsie nautical souvenir shop selling the exact same thing. He didnt like it very much and prceeded to tell me where to go!:) I saw the 2 OT Salesman Models, what did the second one go for? I saw $7,500.00 and then didnt see what it ended up at.
The second, older model on eBay last week was a 'text book example' of how NOT to go about selling a canoe, or anything else. It was a screw-up from about the second day. The original listing started at $69, with an undisclosed 'reserve' of $1000, as it turned out. Although it was described as being 'grade A' it had a number of condition issues which would cause many to view it as merely 'poor' to 'fair'. However, after a dozen or so bids, it had reached $3225 and was going along quite nicely. Likely could have gone higher.

At that point, someone wrote the seller and told her these things are worth over $10,000. She there upon cancelled all bids and ended her listing, following which she immediately re-listed with a new 'buy-it-now' of $12,169 and a new reserve (undisclosed) which turned out to be $7500, as well as a new opening bid requirement of $3225. (In other words, "please come back folks, re-start where we left off, but be prepared to spend a whole lot more".) Her explanation was that the original listing was only an "information gathering exercise" to assess bidder interest. She claimed she had eBay's permission to try out the first listing, cancel if she wished, then re-list. The previous bidders didn't seem pleased, and for several days no one would bid again.

Then, finally, one bidder came back, about 12 hours before the second model was due to close. He bid 4 times in quick succession on the re-listed model, until he hit the reserve. His actual top bid was $7700, as it turned out. No one else came in. Then, this same bidder switched over and also became top bidder on Robert's model, which he won at $5300 after seemingly scaring everyone else off. He had placed a higher 'safety' bid on Robert's model as a back-up, but it wasn't necessary.

Next, having won Robert's model, the winner then withdrew his bids on the re-listed model, knocking it back to zero. The seller then changed her listing for the second time, in what looked like a last-minute effort to make a sale. She reduced the 'buy-it-now' to $8000, lowered the reserve further, but still asked for an 'opener' of $3225. With a few seconds to go, one person bid. The listing ended showing one bid of $3225 and 'reserve not met'.

I guess you can put whatever interpretation you like on this 'schamozzle' . Some folks thought it was a matter of greed killing what might otherwise have been an interesting sale. My old Daddy simply would have said: "ya don't practice in front of the paying crowd. Either you know what you're doing and you're ready to go, or you don't announce the performance. Ya don't rehearse in public!"

It remains to be seen whether there is an ACT II.
Its called, "Good ol American Greed". How sad. It sure was confusing, thanks for making "sense" out of it for me.
There might be an easier way to do this. Every listing on eBay has a small push button on the page that says something like "Report This Item". This will bring up an automated form where you check a few boxes and have room for a short comment. "Old Town" is a trademark and there are boxes for reporting trademark violations, unauthorized copies, etc. Claiming that the model has anything to do with the Old Town Canoe Company or its products when it actually does not is a trademark/intellectual property violation. If you click the boxes and then state something like "This item is not an Old Town product, or even a representation of one and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Old Town Canoe Company - past , present or future." the listing will more than likely be gone the same day. We do this with bogus off-shore guitar copies all the time.

I'd nicely clue the seller in and if I get anything other than "Thanks, I'll fix the listing" back from him, I'd push the button and report the item. He can usually re-list it if he chooses (unless it really is a bootleg copy of an existing product) but at least he won't be able to make false claims about its origin. If he lists one as "I don't know where it came from or who made it" and some sucker pays big bucks for a cheap Chinese souvenier, there isn't much you can do about it. Let the buyer beware, but if it's advertised as possibly being something it's clearly not, report it.
I wish it were that easy. Yes, eBay makes it possible to report an item, but then hardly ever takes action. Even the reporting is made difficult to begin with. In the case of trade mark violation, stolen photos, breach of copyright, eBay will only take action if the actual holder of the trade mark, copyright, stolen photo, etc., files the complaint. Thus, OT itself, or any other owner has to be the one to complain. eBay won't act on a 'third party' complaint.

I've been through it in past with them when 'pirated' photos of my goods were used to try to sell a copy of an expensive, 'one-off' item I owned. By the time eBay took action, the crooks were long gone. I even took out an identical listing to warn folks not to bid on the phony one, and to contact me, the true owner, for info. For that, I received a warning from eBay that my membership rights were subject to being cancelled. I told them, in view of what had happened, and in that I was only trying to protect myself, to punish me was to penalize the innocent. I finally wound up telling them that if they did that, I would bloody well sue them for damages for their failure to act and their complete stupidity in the circumstances. They backed off in the end, but the scammers were never pursued.

I came to the conclusion that eBay doesn't really mind a little thievery now and then as long as it gets paid for its listing services. All they really worry about is their nickels and dimes. I've seen it happen far too often, and eBay rarely gets involved. It's own bulletin boards are replete with members who think it does far too little to police the frauds and scams that take place.
Maybe canoes are different, but every time I've reported bogus guitars claiming to be something they aren't, they've been pulled that very day - including a couple within the last two months. Curious....
I got ripped off bigtime on Ebay. I sent a vintage outboard to someone and I not only got left holding the bill for the item, but for the cost to ship it as well. I went to Ebay and they told me that I needed to press charges myself through local authorities at the offenders local. Right, good luck there. I was pissed. I do agree with you Roger and it angers me as well, but the fact remains that if they went after every crook that is involved here, they would either go broke, or would have to charge even more than they do now. It's just sad that you cant trust anyone.
ebay fences stuff

I read in my local paper today that a recent rash of burglaries is likely going to show up at pawn shops or on ebay. Perhaps the pawn shop owners should sue ebay for loss of business.