Laminating Stems
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Steve Ambrose
Nut in a Canoe
I've been forced to use kiln-dried ash and have found that by soaking the stem blanks for a few days and using a compression strap in the bending process it greatly improves the success rate!
Steve Lapey
LOVES Wooden Canoes
Laminated stems.
I have been using nothing but laminated stems here with good results. The laminations are much easier to bend. When the stem is installed it is almost impossible to see that there is a glue joint.
The ash strips are made up 7/8 inch wide and 7/16 inch thick, when glued together they make a 7/8 inch square stem.
Steam and bend the strips together on the form, let them sit for at least a day. Glue and clamp them on the same form.
Forget the Titebond and/or Gorilla Glue and go right to West System epoxy glue. There is no comparison. It only takes a few minutes to mix the resin and the hardener, then add some number 406 filler and you will never have to worry about a glue failure.
Steve
I have been using nothing but laminated stems here with good results. The laminations are much easier to bend. When the stem is installed it is almost impossible to see that there is a glue joint.
The ash strips are made up 7/8 inch wide and 7/16 inch thick, when glued together they make a 7/8 inch square stem.
Steam and bend the strips together on the form, let them sit for at least a day. Glue and clamp them on the same form.
Forget the Titebond and/or Gorilla Glue and go right to West System epoxy glue. There is no comparison. It only takes a few minutes to mix the resin and the hardener, then add some number 406 filler and you will never have to worry about a glue failure.
Steve
Steve and Ambr607,
Thank you for the advice.
Steve, when you laminate the 2 7/16 strips to create the 7/8 stem, do you use kiln dried lumber? If I understand you correctly, the stems are steamed first using the 7/16 strips, clamped onto the form, then when dried they are glued together to form the finished stem.
I have never used West System Epoxy. Is that something that can be sourced from Home Depot/Lowe's type stores, or something I will need to order? I haven't looked around the net for it yet.
Thank you.
Thank you for the advice.
Steve, when you laminate the 2 7/16 strips to create the 7/8 stem, do you use kiln dried lumber? If I understand you correctly, the stems are steamed first using the 7/16 strips, clamped onto the form, then when dried they are glued together to form the finished stem.
I have never used West System Epoxy. Is that something that can be sourced from Home Depot/Lowe's type stores, or something I will need to order? I haven't looked around the net for it yet.
Thank you.
Steve Lapey
LOVES Wooden Canoes
Laminated Stems
I have always used air dried ash for my stems, kiln dried would be a little tougher to bend, but I think it would work.
Make your bending form about 2 inches thick and you can make two stems at a time.
When you steam and bend the wood over the form and let it sit , clamped, for a day or so it tends to spring back a bit when the clamps are taken off.
After gluing and clamping on the same form for 24 hours you get the desired curve back into the stem and it will stay there. Make sure that you use duct tape or plastic to prevent your work from getting glued to the form!
West System isn't the only epoxy brand on the market, it is the one that I have used with good results. Most marine suppliers carry the product and a good dealer will walk you through process of using it.
Good luck
I have always used air dried ash for my stems, kiln dried would be a little tougher to bend, but I think it would work.
Make your bending form about 2 inches thick and you can make two stems at a time.
When you steam and bend the wood over the form and let it sit , clamped, for a day or so it tends to spring back a bit when the clamps are taken off.
After gluing and clamping on the same form for 24 hours you get the desired curve back into the stem and it will stay there. Make sure that you use duct tape or plastic to prevent your work from getting glued to the form!
West System isn't the only epoxy brand on the market, it is the one that I have used with good results. Most marine suppliers carry the product and a good dealer will walk you through process of using it.
Good luck
greenvilleguy
'42 Yankee OTC
I think I have the worst case senario: I've never done this, I have two to do, I only have access to kiln dried wood and I'd like to use cherry. I have three questions:
1. What is a compression strap? Could I just use flat metal strap like they sell at HD?
2. I make furniture and have plenty of cherry. While cherry doesn't bend quite as easily as ash, I do have it and it's prettier. Any opinions on whether or not I can use cherry?
3. If I make a lamination, what would be the best glue to use that is available at HD. West System is expensive and has me a little intimated.
1. What is a compression strap? Could I just use flat metal strap like they sell at HD?
2. I make furniture and have plenty of cherry. While cherry doesn't bend quite as easily as ash, I do have it and it's prettier. Any opinions on whether or not I can use cherry?
3. If I make a lamination, what would be the best glue to use that is available at HD. West System is expensive and has me a little intimated.
I would be concerned about using Cherry for the stems. I don't think it has the strength of Ash, or the flexibility for taking a blow. So I think it's more likely to splinter if you hit a rock.
Also, the stems are not very visible, so as a feature of the canoe, I think it could be used better elsewhere. If you have ever seen a picture of Joe Seliga's Nora Canoe, in residence at a YMCA Camp in Ely, you will see the cherry can be used for seats, gunwales, deck's etc.
I was able to use kiln dried ash for laminating the stems on may canoe. I soaked 1/4" strips for several days, and then clamped them to the form without epoxy to dry. When dry after a couple days, epoxyed them up. I allowed about 3/4" on my form for springback, but didn't have any more than 1/4", so when laminating there is not as big of a springback concern as when bending a solid piece.
Also, the stems are not very visible, so as a feature of the canoe, I think it could be used better elsewhere. If you have ever seen a picture of Joe Seliga's Nora Canoe, in residence at a YMCA Camp in Ely, you will see the cherry can be used for seats, gunwales, deck's etc.
I was able to use kiln dried ash for laminating the stems on may canoe. I soaked 1/4" strips for several days, and then clamped them to the form without epoxy to dry. When dry after a couple days, epoxyed them up. I allowed about 3/4" on my form for springback, but didn't have any more than 1/4", so when laminating there is not as big of a springback concern as when bending a solid piece.
MGC
Scrapmaker
A compression strap is simply a sheet of cold rolled that you back the stem up with before you bend it around your form. You can pick it up at most builder supply stores.
The backer helps to keep the stem from splitting apart as it keeps the top surface in compression while the cells slide across each other during the bend. You'll still lose a few stems even with this approach, just not as many.
Ash is pretty available and pretty standard. You may have trouble with cherry...pretty, yes, but not fibrous and form-able like ash or elm. I have never tried to steam cherry for anything other than rails.
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greenvilleguy
'42 Yankee OTC
Thanks. I found some ash locally so I'll go pick up some. I'll need it to scarf the keel as well so would need it there as well.
Dave Osborn
LIFE MEMBER
For Outer Stems....
When I've laminated ash outer stems, I've used the actual canoe as the form. When you laminate, there is very little spring back and each stem is custom to that end of the canoe.
Soak 1/4 inch strips for a few days, pre drill holes for brass weatherstripping nails as you nail the first strip to the canoe stem. If your strips are moist from soaking you can apply Gorrilla Glue, and nail the next strip on top, and so on. It helps to have a spare pair of hands to pull the strips down tight as you nail.
If you have an issue with Gorrilla Glue and want to use epoxy, you can stack up moist strips, drill a hole in the keel end of the strips and secure them to the inner stem with a screw. I attach a ratchet strap as pictured to hold the strips close to the inner stem. Let them dry for a few days and then glue and nail them together with epoxy. I put a nail about every 8 inches or so, or where it looks like the joints need tightening.
Pry it off the canoe and cut the tacks off of the inside. I finish shape it on a bandsaw and with sweeping strokes across a belt sander.
Important things are, number your strips so that after they are cut and planed you can stack them as they came off the board matching up the grain as well as can be expected. Also use the glue liberally to fill in an occasional void. Once shaped, stained and varnished you have to look close to see any seams.
I have also steam bent ash full outer stems using the canoe as a form with good success....
When I've laminated ash outer stems, I've used the actual canoe as the form. When you laminate, there is very little spring back and each stem is custom to that end of the canoe.
Soak 1/4 inch strips for a few days, pre drill holes for brass weatherstripping nails as you nail the first strip to the canoe stem. If your strips are moist from soaking you can apply Gorrilla Glue, and nail the next strip on top, and so on. It helps to have a spare pair of hands to pull the strips down tight as you nail.
If you have an issue with Gorrilla Glue and want to use epoxy, you can stack up moist strips, drill a hole in the keel end of the strips and secure them to the inner stem with a screw. I attach a ratchet strap as pictured to hold the strips close to the inner stem. Let them dry for a few days and then glue and nail them together with epoxy. I put a nail about every 8 inches or so, or where it looks like the joints need tightening.
Pry it off the canoe and cut the tacks off of the inside. I finish shape it on a bandsaw and with sweeping strokes across a belt sander.
Important things are, number your strips so that after they are cut and planed you can stack them as they came off the board matching up the grain as well as can be expected. Also use the glue liberally to fill in an occasional void. Once shaped, stained and varnished you have to look close to see any seams.
I have also steam bent ash full outer stems using the canoe as a form with good success....
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greenvilleguy
'42 Yankee OTC
tacks thru the epoxy
Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, but is there any problem driving nails for the ribs or tacks for the planking and canvas into the ash / epoxy lamination?
Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, but is there any problem driving nails for the ribs or tacks for the planking and canvas into the ash / epoxy lamination?
Dave Osborn
LIFE MEMBER
Brass canoe tacks will probably work. I used the weather stripping nails because I had them and there were light annular rings on them for better grip. Also, they were smaller than typical ring bronze ring nails used for attaching the ribs to the inwale..
Gil Cramer
The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.
Morris canoes have white cedar stems. There are few woods weaker than white cedar. Evidently, stems can be made from almost any wood; laminating is easier for most people.
