I have a 13.5' canoe of unknown origin that I have started to repair. It needs new inwales and outwales. Just by chance I stopped by a local lumber yard to see if they had any boards long enough for this purpose and to my surprise they had three species: lacewood, macory, and sapele. I have read some general descriptions of the lacewood and sapele that make it sound as if these would be good to use (sapele is described as being used in place of mahogany) but could not find anything on the macory. Does anyone have any experience with these woods for this purpose?
Lacewood or sapele for gunwales
- Thread starter Tim C
- Start date
Todd Bradshaw
Sailmaker
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Sapele is used in a sense as a substitute for mahogany. It has pretty high density and interlocked grain, so it should be strong, tough, and hold fasteners well when used as gunwale material. I don't think it steam-beds well, though, so if your gunwales have significant curvature, this could be trouble. I read somewhere that it's not good for marine applications, so I looked for some additional info. The website:
http://www.bearcreeklumber.com/species/mahogany_sapele.html
says that it's marine worms that are the worry. Brooks and Hill's "How to Build Glued Lapstrake Boats" says that rot resistance is high. Sapele can have some beautiful ribbon stripe figure like you see in the decks of some of the long-decked courting canoes, but of course that's a non-issue for gunwales.
The latest issue of Fine Woodworking (no. 207, Oct. 2009) just arrived in the mail, and there's a nice article comparing the properties of mahoganies and their alternatives. Not specific to the boatbuilder there, but it's still a nice read.
Michael
http://www.bearcreeklumber.com/species/mahogany_sapele.html
says that it's marine worms that are the worry. Brooks and Hill's "How to Build Glued Lapstrake Boats" says that rot resistance is high. Sapele can have some beautiful ribbon stripe figure like you see in the decks of some of the long-decked courting canoes, but of course that's a non-issue for gunwales.
The latest issue of Fine Woodworking (no. 207, Oct. 2009) just arrived in the mail, and there's a nice article comparing the properties of mahoganies and their alternatives. Not specific to the boatbuilder there, but it's still a nice read.
Michael
Splinter
Wood Girl #1186
Those woods
It's Makore with an accent on the middle sylable. It's grown in Africa and is distributed along the Ivory Coast. It is not a member of the Mahogany family, Meliacea, it's Sapotacea. Buckling or rupturing can occur if an attempt at steam bending is made. It tends to split upon fastening and has low resistance to shock loads.
Lacewood a.k.a European Plane is not from the Mahogany family either. It comes largely from the UK. It's pretty good for steam bending but, low decay resistance and prone to distort. But man, it's beautiful!
I would not use the Makore or the Lacewood for gunwales. Both have a lot of interlocking grain/tension and can have issues with splintering, and twisting! Sapele on the other hand would make a nice choice and you may even be able to get it in some nice long lengths. High crushing strengths and medium bending strength, it is also pretty good for resistance to shock loads. It can buckle if you don't steam bend it properly so you've got to be really careful about how you do this! It also hails from Africa and is a member of the Meliacea family. You'll notice a slightly cedar-like aroma from it when you cut it.
All that being said, no matter what you choose, when you use methods to change a natural material like wood that require interupting it's grain by sawing, splitting, sanding, carving, slicing and add pressure (like bending) and change it's stability by adding moisture (steaming) you're taking lots of chances with that natural material. All things in nature wanting to be equal, it is going to do what it wants and in the end may surprise you along the way.
It's Makore with an accent on the middle sylable. It's grown in Africa and is distributed along the Ivory Coast. It is not a member of the Mahogany family, Meliacea, it's Sapotacea. Buckling or rupturing can occur if an attempt at steam bending is made. It tends to split upon fastening and has low resistance to shock loads.
Lacewood a.k.a European Plane is not from the Mahogany family either. It comes largely from the UK. It's pretty good for steam bending but, low decay resistance and prone to distort. But man, it's beautiful!
I would not use the Makore or the Lacewood for gunwales. Both have a lot of interlocking grain/tension and can have issues with splintering, and twisting! Sapele on the other hand would make a nice choice and you may even be able to get it in some nice long lengths. High crushing strengths and medium bending strength, it is also pretty good for resistance to shock loads. It can buckle if you don't steam bend it properly so you've got to be really careful about how you do this! It also hails from Africa and is a member of the Meliacea family. You'll notice a slightly cedar-like aroma from it when you cut it.
All that being said, no matter what you choose, when you use methods to change a natural material like wood that require interupting it's grain by sawing, splitting, sanding, carving, slicing and add pressure (like bending) and change it's stability by adding moisture (steaming) you're taking lots of chances with that natural material. All things in nature wanting to be equal, it is going to do what it wants and in the end may surprise you along the way.
Last edited:
Howard Caplan
Wooden Canoe Maniac
Could Sapele be the same wood as what I heard called Ribbon Lace Mahogany?
The attributes above led me to this question? If yes, then I have worked with it years ago on various yacht furniture applications.
Howard
The attributes above led me to this question? If yes, then I have worked with it years ago on various yacht furniture applications.
Howard
Splinter
Wood Girl #1186
Anythings possible
Some woods have as many as 50 different common market names. So yes it could be called that. This is why I would love it if we referred to woods by their Latin names. It would cut down the confusion. People who work with plants whether in landscape, greenhouse, botanical garden, exploration, forestry, breeding, etc all use them with little difficulty. It's not that hard. Latin is the language of science, I don't know why we can't use it in the wood industry. It seems to work fine all the way up to the foresters and then it comes to a grinding halt. Ah, but, I digress.......
(Yes, I realize math people will argue that algebra is the language of science, but, I will continue to argue that algebra is the language of Math. Oh wait, we started a separate thread just for arguments, I forgot, I will take this up in the "Arguments" section.)
Some woods have as many as 50 different common market names. So yes it could be called that. This is why I would love it if we referred to woods by their Latin names. It would cut down the confusion. People who work with plants whether in landscape, greenhouse, botanical garden, exploration, forestry, breeding, etc all use them with little difficulty. It's not that hard. Latin is the language of science, I don't know why we can't use it in the wood industry. It seems to work fine all the way up to the foresters and then it comes to a grinding halt. Ah, but, I digress.......
(Yes, I realize math people will argue that algebra is the language of science, but, I will continue to argue that algebra is the language of Math. Oh wait, we started a separate thread just for arguments, I forgot, I will take this up in the "Arguments" section.)
Splinter, I'm with ya on the latin, especially since it sounds like the lacewood in question is probably cardwellia sublimis, mostly found in Australia. The European Plane you also cite is probably platanus acerifolia (ok, I had to google that one as I'm not familiar with it) which is indeed found throughout the UK. http://www.musterkiste.com/en/holz/pro/1009_European_plane.html.
I've used the cardwellia for decks, seats and thwarts and it looks sharp and seems to last well though I would have a good look at long boards closely for checking as it seems to be tricky to dry. Gotta think it would be pricey too.
I've used the cardwellia for decks, seats and thwarts and it looks sharp and seems to last well though I would have a good look at long boards closely for checking as it seems to be tricky to dry. Gotta think it would be pricey too.
Splinter
Wood Girl #1186
3 different things...
Lacewood can actually be on the market as Lacewood from 3 different types of trees (one of them even being an Oak) from 3 different continents! Get a lasso around that! HA! Brazillian Lacewood is medium in color, Silky Oak is from Australia northern Queensland where a lot of our Eucalyptus veneer comes from including hybrids, it's the Cardwellia sublimis, a little darker colored, European Lacewood (Plane) is Platanus hybrida and known as London Plane, English plane, French plane, oriental plane and generally has a smaller figure, Silver Oak, smaller figure and lighter in color, well, by now, everyone in class has dozed off. But, I deal with it every day. I have two fabulous leaves sitting on my floor right now getting ready to be presented for two upcoming wall paneling projects. It's hard to put them away! Really beautiful.
Lacewood can actually be on the market as Lacewood from 3 different types of trees (one of them even being an Oak) from 3 different continents! Get a lasso around that! HA! Brazillian Lacewood is medium in color, Silky Oak is from Australia northern Queensland where a lot of our Eucalyptus veneer comes from including hybrids, it's the Cardwellia sublimis, a little darker colored, European Lacewood (Plane) is Platanus hybrida and known as London Plane, English plane, French plane, oriental plane and generally has a smaller figure, Silver Oak, smaller figure and lighter in color, well, by now, everyone in class has dozed off. But, I deal with it every day. I have two fabulous leaves sitting on my floor right now getting ready to be presented for two upcoming wall paneling projects. It's hard to put them away! Really beautiful.
Dave Osborn
LIFE MEMBER
Mahogany alternative?
I recently talked with a Chris Craft restorer. He told me that when he needs "mahogany" to steam bend, he buys Spanish Cedar. He says he has good luck bending it and the grain matches mahogany pretty well. (I haven't seen it)
Does anybody know about the Spanish Cedar, or other easily bent Mahogany species that are commonly available in gunwale lengths?
I recently talked with a Chris Craft restorer. He told me that when he needs "mahogany" to steam bend, he buys Spanish Cedar. He says he has good luck bending it and the grain matches mahogany pretty well. (I haven't seen it)
Does anybody know about the Spanish Cedar, or other easily bent Mahogany species that are commonly available in gunwale lengths?
Similar threads
