Keel: Paint or Varnish? Cove cut needed?

[Howie]

It's a crappy rainy day here so I can't canvas (I do it outside), so I've started making the keel for an OT HW. As I'm planing away I find myself wondering whether the cove cut on the bottom surface is needed.

I know the cove is intended to hold bedding compound and also allows the keel to sit more 'flush' (flusher?) to the canoe bottom. But if you paint the keel (and the canoe sees water only when in use) is the cove/bedding area needed?

And what about painting vs varnishing the keel. I have always varnished mine because I love the look, but I suppose the paint would last longer and offer more protection. And for those who paint, I assume you attach a pre-painted keel to a painted canoe... or maybe you attach the keel just before the canoe's final coat?

Opinions?

 

[Greg Nolan]

I think your supposition that paint on a keel will last longer and offer more protection is not correct.

A keel is the lowest point on your hull. If you use a paved put-in, the keel may leave some paint behind. If you sometimes paddle in shallow water with even a few rocks, a keel will find them and will leave some paint behind.

When I bought our 1931 OT 50 pounder a few years ago, the painted keel looked like this:



The whole canoe has since been painted over, including the keel.



I have not removed the keel on the 50 pounder yet, so I don't know if there is bedding compound in place, but if there is, it surely is dried out and useless by now. When the paint cracks at the long joint where the hull and keel meet, as has happened a few times, a leak develops. A touch of paint over the crack solves the problem temporarily, but the flexibility of a wood/canvas hull guarantees that cracks in the paint will recur.

A keel will also leave varnish behind on pavement, rocks, beaver dams, etc., but the bare wood showing through varnish does not look as bad (to my eyes) as bare wood showing through paint.

Whether painted or varnished, minor chips and scrapes on the keel are readily touched up.

When I recanvas this boat in the near future, I expect I will strip the paint from the keel, varnish it, and use bedding compound to keep water away from the screw holes holding the keel in place, hopefully preventing leaks even when the hull flexes.

Greg

 

[ken.kelly]

Howie,
I can't speak to the necessity of a cove, but that how I've always done or seen it done.

My comment is about a bright finish, varnished keel. I think Greg is encouraging you to go bright..and I agree with that.

Though not originally done on any of the old canoes I've collected it sure looks good. Especially if it is a nice piece of quarter sawn oak. Especially if your canoe has outside stems and that are finished bright too (most all of my old canoes do have this feature). The continuous line of the varnished wood between outside stems seems appropriate to me and I'd support that look.

A varnished keel even looks good when you're carrying the canoe on top of your car roof.
Go for it.

 

[Treewater]

The cove is easy to cut if you have a table router and fence. A 1/2" or 3/4" round bit is needed. I think the keel sits better with the cove though I have never had a keel leak on any canoe. I put the keel on after the third coat or more. I want that paint sealing the center well. I paint the keel first just to seal it; mainly to seal the part against the hull and prevent swelling. After it is on, a few more coats. I also go for full length bang strips. I even use aluminum if I cannot find brass. Anything to prevent the wood from scraping on concrete or rocks.
Either way, make sure there are no air bubbles under the keel in the bedding compound. If not, expect bubbles to come out after it is painted and sits in the sun. I think the real issue is how well you fasten the keel on, do the screws go in well and solidly? A sure grip prevents the keel from moving under the constant dragging and scraping.

 

[Howie]

Interesting... I had thought most of you would favor painting the keel - instead varnish seems to be preferred. I've always varnished them myself, but I've noticed that over time when water eventually seeps into cracks in the finish the wood in that area turns a different color. If you're the persnickety sort then this requires at least a partial strip to hide & fix. Had it been a paint finish all you'd need to do would be to sand the area and slap on some more paint.

As to cove & bedding, I'm using it on my 2 latest (OT 16' HW & OT 13' 50#). But as Greg points out the bedding will not be perfect and will dry out over time, so I'm still not sure it really does any good. But the cove absolutely makes the keel seat better, so it's worth the effort for that alone. O - I believe bedding compound is paintable, so maybe the finished & painted keel could have less visible 'cracks' at the seams.

Oh... you don't need to use an expensive 'cove' table saw or router tool. Simply use a normal table saw blade at maybe 1/16" height and make a guide angled at, say, 30deg from the normal direction. Here's a thread on the topic: http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?6382-Keel-Question

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

 

[Lazy Jack]

Curved card scraper - takes five minutes.

 

[Howie]

Seems to me you'd need a very steady hand. If you slip then you're carving away wood from the edges - and you want this area flat.

 

[David Satter]

Ok. I pretty much do restorations only, not to many new canoes. Mostly all the keels I take off were painted, and it seems they were put on after the canvas filler and painted with the canoe. I would say 50% of the time I can use the old keel over so i paint them just because they already have alot of paint deep in the wood. I cove them or clean out the old cove and put them on with dolfinite before I paint, maybe over a coat of primer. When I roll and tip I paint one side of the canoe then the other using the keel as a mid point. Any dolfinite left over after you clean up what oozed out paints well as long as you let it skin over and dry. With that said I do think a varnished keel does look great, and Howie those penn yan deck decals I got from you worked great. Dave

 

[Howie]

Thanks - and glad the decals worked out.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Compare and contrast varnish and paint:





Of course, in the water, the keels are mostly under water:

 

[Howie]

No question - varnished keels look the best. I had intended to do it for my latest, but then I went and put linseed oil on the keel before I stained it. So I'm thinking now's the time to use paint. It'll be my first! Besides... I intend to sell it anyway.

 

[Lazy Jack]

Seems to me you'd need a very steady hand. If you slip then you're carving away wood from the edges - and you want this area flat.

Actually, you don't need a steady hand at all and you can't slip if you use this technique:

Clamp the keel to the bench with cove face up, trail your middle finger nail beds along either edge as guides, hold the card scraper with index fingers and thumbs. Works every time perfectly, very easy to control with precision, totally fool proof.

It seems harder than it is, but I think you'll find it's not. Try not to over think it.

 

[Howie]

Sounds like a good recipe for splinters! But as it happens, I have a curved edge shaper tool. I'll try it next time. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Howie]

Tada!!! Just finished the 13' OT last night. Behind it is it's 11' little sister I finished last year. Notice the varnished keels. BTW - how often do you see a 11' & 13' together?

 

[Treewater]

Very nice. and how often do you see a 13 or 11 at all?