Just completed this Yankee I picked up from WCHA member Tom Berl
- Thread starter Howie
- Start date
JClearwater
Wooden Canoes are in the Blood
Looks great Howie. Nicely done. What brand and color is the paint?
Jim C.
Jim C.
ALCEDO ATTHIS
Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes
Very nice , indian summer color 
OP
OP
Howie
Wooden Canoe Maniac
Epifanes Deep Red monourethane
patrick corry
solo canoeist
Great color! Good looking canoe too.
Why no center thwart? The 1919 Old Town 16’ HW model I recently acquired also has no center thwart. Perhaps meant as cottage canoes rather than trippers meant to be carried?
Why no center thwart? The 1919 Old Town 16’ HW model I recently acquired also has no center thwart. Perhaps meant as cottage canoes rather than trippers meant to be carried?
OP
OP
Howie
Wooden Canoe Maniac
Typically you'll see 3 thwarts, that is a center thwart, on 17footers and longer. Though saying that I do remember I had a 16ft Penn Yan Scout that had 3 thwarts
Todd Bradshaw
Sailmaker
The Yankee model was listed in the catalogs from 1920 to 1956 but was never shown with a middle thwart. The one at https://forums.wcha.org/attachments/322/ is from 1936 and the catalog page at https://forums.wcha.org/attachments/5134/ is from 1923.
Benson
Benson
patrick corry
solo canoeist
My comment/question about the lack of a center thwart revolves around the ability of one person- at least for a somewhat old guy- to move the canoe around. The 1919 HW model I acquired is the first canoe I've had that lacks a center thwart. The canoes I regularly use are all 15' and have center thwarts (and no quarter thwarts). I find it's huge dilemma to manage moving the HW model around. I was thinking of starting to work on that canoe soon and each time I want to move it from its storage location on a wall rack I need to call a friend to help me. The extension of that thought is that the canoe, or any canoe without a center thwart for that matter, is difficult for one person to manage. There's no place to lash paddles in for a portage! I presume that any canoe without a center thwart isn't meant for tripping, hence my comment about cottage use?
I've found that a clamp on portage yoke works well for moving canoes alone that don't have a center thwart.
Benson
Benson
patrick corry
solo canoeist
Yes, that will certainly work for moving the canoe around; even for daily or tripping use as evidenced by the many modern canoes which utilize such a carry yoke. I suppose my intent was to ascertain the logic of the original builders- not just Old Town- for omitting a center thwart. Perhaps just to provide more center space for passengers, picnic baskets, etc; all the paraphernalia of day use and assuming there might be willing helpers to move the canoe to and from the pond!
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
The original designers simply put in thwarts to suit the canoe in question. In a longer canoes, more thwarts are needed to ensure maintenance of shape, structural integrity. In shorter canoes, fewer thwarts are required and fewer thwarts reduces overall weight. I don't believe builders necessarily center thwarts in place as carrying devices; it's just that users found it convenient in some cases to utilize the center thwart as such. Many 15' canoes, particularly the OT 50-pounder model, have only a single center thwart. Again, I think it's there first as a means to prevent spreading, but as evidenced by many 50-pounders, it's not the best solution. A new 15' canoe built using the same dimensions and materials might be much better with two thwarts, producing a canoe that better maintains its shape, and a canoe that could lifted by gunwales, and one that can be carried on a cart or portaged using a removable (or permanently added) center thwart or portage yoke.
By the way, a 15' OT canoe I once restored was peanut-shaped and I kept the original gunwales, so I added two additional thwarts. It was a lot of material in the canoe's center, but this arrangement produce smooth gunwale lines, and perhaps the original center thwart has gotten use on carries. As another aside, I have a 15' E.M. White that appears to have been built with a single stern seat and three thwarts. This is a nice arrangement as long as you've got some up-front ballast when paddling solo from the seat (or you just paddle kneeling from elsewhere).
By the way, a 15' OT canoe I once restored was peanut-shaped and I kept the original gunwales, so I added two additional thwarts. It was a lot of material in the canoe's center, but this arrangement produce smooth gunwale lines, and perhaps the original center thwart has gotten use on carries. As another aside, I have a 15' E.M. White that appears to have been built with a single stern seat and three thwarts. This is a nice arrangement as long as you've got some up-front ballast when paddling solo from the seat (or you just paddle kneeling from elsewhere).
Last edited:
pklonowski
Unrepentant Canoeist
My 17' HW model had three thwarts.
patrick corry
solo canoeist
Thanks for everyone's input regarding thwarts (and/or lack thereof) and apologies to Howie, for I have generated thread drift, taking attention away from his lovely canoe!
Dave Osborn
LIFE MEMBER
To add to the thread drift, I’ve altered 50 pounders to get them back in a reasonable shape. Usually adding length to the center thwart, but I have added a quarter thwart behind the now seat and/or added carry thwarts.
I’ve worked on chestnuts, too that have what I call the Chestnut Curse. Sometimes spread to the extreme where seat hangers are angled severely and not straight drops.
I’ve worked on chestnuts, too that have what I call the Chestnut Curse. Sometimes spread to the extreme where seat hangers are angled severely and not straight drops.
Michael Grace
Lifetime Member
Howie - very nice canoe in a beautiful color! Epifanes makes some very nice colors, some of them being very unusual relative to those of other paint manufacturers.
Back to the drift, in my experience and from memory of many canoes and canoe catalogs, it seems (please correct this if wrong) that during the heyday of the big Maine builders including Old Town, Carleton, Kennebec and Morris, there were three thwarts in 17' and 18' canoes and even in 20' models. There were two thwarts in 16' models, and one in 15' canoes. For Old Town, this is true for:
- HW
- Otca
- Charles River
- Ideal
- Guide
Other models:
- Yankee: built in 16' only, so only two thwarts (see Howie's lovely canoe above).
- 50-pounder: only 15' and shorter, and at most only one thwart.
- Early Molitor (18' and I think rarely 17'): 3 thwarts.
- Late Molitor (60s and forward): no thwarts.
- Canoes built without seats had additional thwarts installed.
- Custom canoes could be built most any way a customer desired.
Other builders may have done things differently. For example, Willits canoes were 17' and the standard was two thwarts (no center thwart) and two seats, alterable on custom order. At least some of the Charles River-area builders (Waltham, Robertson, etc.) used only two thwarts in longer (17' and 18') canoes with long decks or short decks and seats. I think Racine Boat Co. built most canoes, even in 17' and maybe longer, with only two thwarts. In short, canoe models, especially at 16', with only two thwarts are very common. Some canoe models in longer lengths were built with only two thwarts - no center thwart - as well.
Back to the drift, in my experience and from memory of many canoes and canoe catalogs, it seems (please correct this if wrong) that during the heyday of the big Maine builders including Old Town, Carleton, Kennebec and Morris, there were three thwarts in 17' and 18' canoes and even in 20' models. There were two thwarts in 16' models, and one in 15' canoes. For Old Town, this is true for:
- HW
- Otca
- Charles River
- Ideal
- Guide
Other models:
- Yankee: built in 16' only, so only two thwarts (see Howie's lovely canoe above).
- 50-pounder: only 15' and shorter, and at most only one thwart.
- Early Molitor (18' and I think rarely 17'): 3 thwarts.
- Late Molitor (60s and forward): no thwarts.
- Canoes built without seats had additional thwarts installed.
- Custom canoes could be built most any way a customer desired.
Other builders may have done things differently. For example, Willits canoes were 17' and the standard was two thwarts (no center thwart) and two seats, alterable on custom order. At least some of the Charles River-area builders (Waltham, Robertson, etc.) used only two thwarts in longer (17' and 18') canoes with long decks or short decks and seats. I think Racine Boat Co. built most canoes, even in 17' and maybe longer, with only two thwarts. In short, canoe models, especially at 16', with only two thwarts are very common. Some canoe models in longer lengths were built with only two thwarts - no center thwart - as well.
Worth Gretter
LOVES Wooden Canoes
The 18 foot UFO (but probably Maine guide canoe from early 1900s) that I finished restoring this summer originally had 5 thwarts, spaced exactly 3 feet apart.
The 2 end thwarts were gone when I got it, but I kept the other 3. I had to trade the two quarter thwarts, as one was a little longer than the other and I needed that extra length to maintain the curve of the gunwale in that area.
And your restoration looks great Howie! Canvas or Dacron on this one?
The 2 end thwarts were gone when I got it, but I kept the other 3. I had to trade the two quarter thwarts, as one was a little longer than the other and I needed that extra length to maintain the curve of the gunwale in that area.
And your restoration looks great Howie! Canvas or Dacron on this one?
OP
OP
Howie
Wooden Canoe Maniac
Thanks Worth. Dacron again. Weather was too cold for me to canvas, plus no time for the mud to dry 'cause I wanted to get for sale before Christmas.
