canoe9girl
Curious about Wooden Canoes
I have a chance to buy a CS Heavy Water canoe, number 140044...where can I find out what these terms mean?
email me at MLJL1743@aol.com please.
email me at MLJL1743@aol.com please.
Info on canoe
- Thread starter canoe9girl
- Start date
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
I'll email you directly, but want to post the information for all to see. I also get to post the additional information and encouragement regarding this project and the WCHA... and posting here permits others to join in with thoughts and opinions too.
Old Town 140044 is a 16 foot CS grade ("common sense") HW ("heavy water") canoe built between May and July of 1944 with red Western cedar planking, open spruce gunwales and a keel. It was painted dark green, with the notation that this is guide special green, and shipped to Flint, Michigan August 4, 1944.
To explain further, CS grade is essentially Old Town's way of saying "second grade" without indicating lesser quality. AA grade is their term for "first grade"-- those canoes are usually trimmed in mahogany. CS grade canoes have other hardwoods in their seats, decks, and thwarts... ash, birch, maple or oak.
HW is the canoe's model-- and is believed to stand for "heavy water", which simply means the canoe is designed to be paddled on a lake... which doesn't mean it can't be used on a river. The HW was sometimes fitted for sailing because the shape of the canoe worked well for this--- was stable and easy to handle when under sail, whereas a narrower canoe might not be.
Canoes built during WWII may be constructed using iron hardware-- tacks, screws and the like-- rather than copper and brass which were needed for the war effort. Some restorers replace the iron because it can deteriorate... you may be able to determine if there's iron in this canoe by running a magnet over it.
Cane for seats also became unavailable, and wartime Old Towns often have slatted wooden seats... although this may have been replaced if the canoe has been worked on since it was built.
I hope this helps...
Your scan is attached below. Scans of approximately 210,000 records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. Additional information about the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details.
Please join WCHA or make a tax deductible contribution so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA, http://www.wcha.org/wcha_video.php to watch a 10 minute video about WCHA and our programs and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to join. If you are already a WCHA member, THANK YOU!
Kathy
Old Town 140044 is a 16 foot CS grade ("common sense") HW ("heavy water") canoe built between May and July of 1944 with red Western cedar planking, open spruce gunwales and a keel. It was painted dark green, with the notation that this is guide special green, and shipped to Flint, Michigan August 4, 1944.
To explain further, CS grade is essentially Old Town's way of saying "second grade" without indicating lesser quality. AA grade is their term for "first grade"-- those canoes are usually trimmed in mahogany. CS grade canoes have other hardwoods in their seats, decks, and thwarts... ash, birch, maple or oak.
HW is the canoe's model-- and is believed to stand for "heavy water", which simply means the canoe is designed to be paddled on a lake... which doesn't mean it can't be used on a river. The HW was sometimes fitted for sailing because the shape of the canoe worked well for this--- was stable and easy to handle when under sail, whereas a narrower canoe might not be.
Canoes built during WWII may be constructed using iron hardware-- tacks, screws and the like-- rather than copper and brass which were needed for the war effort. Some restorers replace the iron because it can deteriorate... you may be able to determine if there's iron in this canoe by running a magnet over it.
Cane for seats also became unavailable, and wartime Old Towns often have slatted wooden seats... although this may have been replaced if the canoe has been worked on since it was built.
I hope this helps...
Your scan is attached below. Scans of approximately 210,000 records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. Additional information about the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details.
Please join WCHA or make a tax deductible contribution so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA, http://www.wcha.org/wcha_video.php to watch a 10 minute video about WCHA and our programs and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to join. If you are already a WCHA member, THANK YOU!
Kathy
Attachments
canoe9girl
Curious about Wooden Canoes
Thanks for the quick and wonderful reply. I have an OT Charles River in Royalex, which is great for taking the grand kids out on local small lakes. Now I have gotten the bug to have a winter project, and have begun looking for a wood/canvas canoe, and find a whole new world has opened up.
Other than EBay, any suggestions as to how I can find any local canoes for sale in wood/canvas? Thanks again for the thorough reply.
canoe9girl
Other than EBay, any suggestions as to how I can find any local canoes for sale in wood/canvas? Thanks again for the thorough reply.
canoe9girl
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Welcome to the Wonderful World of Wooden Canoes!
Craigslist has had some nice w/c canoes. Although most of the old canoe builders shipped canoes everywhere, some areas have a greater stash of canoes than others... and some brands may be more prevalent in one area than another, i.e. you'll likely find more Shell Lakes in Wisconsin and Fabers in Ontario.
I smile at the word "local" because it reminds me how my mind-set has changed: we used to have "a certain distance" we were willing to travel for a canoe. That went out the window when I "had to have" a particular eBay canoe that was several states away... so we learned that not only could we travel for a canoe, but the trip was part of the fun of finding the canoe. And we've met some great folks along the way, too... darkening the doors of other WCHA members.
Best of luck--- let us know how things are going. You're doing a wonderful thing whenever you take a child out in a canoe!
Kathy
Craigslist has had some nice w/c canoes. Although most of the old canoe builders shipped canoes everywhere, some areas have a greater stash of canoes than others... and some brands may be more prevalent in one area than another, i.e. you'll likely find more Shell Lakes in Wisconsin and Fabers in Ontario.
I smile at the word "local" because it reminds me how my mind-set has changed: we used to have "a certain distance" we were willing to travel for a canoe. That went out the window when I "had to have" a particular eBay canoe that was several states away... so we learned that not only could we travel for a canoe, but the trip was part of the fun of finding the canoe. And we've met some great folks along the way, too... darkening the doors of other WCHA members.
Best of luck--- let us know how things are going. You're doing a wonderful thing whenever you take a child out in a canoe!
Kathy
Chuck Hoffhine
Wooden Canoe Nut
CS grade
Susan Audette, in her book The Old Town Canoe Company Our First Hundred Years, writes "The CS distinction indicated that the canoe was made of cedar and spruce. More practically, however, the letters stood for Common Sense. The Grays [owners of the company and WCHA's Benson Grays' kin] intended this grade for the common man, someone with a non-nonsense approach to canoeing- someone, perhaps, with limits on his wallet"
I would surmise that CS offically stood for 'cedar spruce' but on the production floor, or on the river, or in the woods, or someplace morphed into a slang term of 'common sense.' But we will probably never know.
-Chuck
Susan Audette, in her book The Old Town Canoe Company Our First Hundred Years, writes "The CS distinction indicated that the canoe was made of cedar and spruce. More practically, however, the letters stood for Common Sense. The Grays [owners of the company and WCHA's Benson Grays' kin] intended this grade for the common man, someone with a non-nonsense approach to canoeing- someone, perhaps, with limits on his wallet"
I would surmise that CS offically stood for 'cedar spruce' but on the production floor, or on the river, or in the woods, or someplace morphed into a slang term of 'common sense.' But we will probably never know.
-Chuck
Chuck Hoffhine said:
Both CS and AA grade canoes are made of cedar, so no differentiation there, and I doubt the "C" ever stood for that. Old Town used the phrase "common sense" in their description of grades as early as the 1901 catalog.
For those who may still be confused, CS grade Old Town canoes will have spruce inwales and outwales, and the decks, thwarts and seat frames will be native hardwoods. AA grade canoes, in contrast, have mahogany inwales and outwales, as well as mahogany decks, thwarts and seat frames.
